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How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

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Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#461

Post by wwweston »

justizin wrote: post #310
rwhitman wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of all the comments on this thread, this is the only one with an actionable solution to the problem.

SFPD are going down this road, OPD (Oakland) and many others already do, but the officers often find an excuse for their camera to malfunction when they want, and in many cases they are instructed to turn the camera on themselves before interacting with anyone, and they simply don't. It turns out that telling the cops what to do isn't very effective.

You're probably right; there'd need to be incentives.

Maybe tying pay and funding to available footage?

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#462

Post by rtkwe »

lettergram wrote: post #449
rtkwe wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't get a receipt did you? Any time cops take anything get a receipt...

I wrote a report, figured that was enough... oops.

If you'd gotten a copy of the report, with the receiving officer's signature that would have been a good start.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#463

Post by girvo »

10feet wrote: post #50
interstitial wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how can she call the paramedics without the police?

When you call 911, don't you get the option for Police, Fire or Ambulance? That is the way it works in Australia.

And let me tell you, I've had acquaintances nearly die from overdoses because they've watched too much American TV; here in Aus, if you call the ambulance the police will not come unless you report violence.

But hey, Australia is surprisingly progressive in this way: I just got my prescription for Naloxone needles and did my training today. I'm an ex-addict, and don't hang with those people very often, but if I ever do I can save an overdose :) this is in QLD of all places, despite Newman trying to turn us into a police state.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#464

Post by waqf »

MereInterest wrote: post #457
waqf wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is indeed a perfect example of what is typically called "victim blaming". Where I disagree with you is that I do not read Gorbzel as suggesting that the perpetrator is not at fault: by my reading Gorbzel says nothing one way or the other on that subject. If you read the comment with the preconception that every interaction has one side which is Right and one side which is Wrong, then you will see the cops portra…

I probably should explain my position more fully. The cause of a result and the fault of a result are entirely separate concepts. I think of "cause" as anything that, when prevented, would prevent the final result. By this definition, both the officer and the author caused the abuse and arrest. However, "fault" is in the deviation from a perfect world that caused the result. The author, showing concern and asking abo…

Thanks for explaining. I agree that there is a distinction between "cause" and "fault" as you describe.

Gorbzel's comment is pretty blunt: for sake of argument, it basically amounts to "[Victim] is an idiot and should have known better, for his own sake". But to me it is very clearly an assignment of "cause" not "fault" in your terminology.

I understand this from phrases such as "for […] his own well-being" and "to his own detriment", as well as the fact that it's phrased as "advice". These make clear that Gorbzel is saying that the victim erred from a self-interest point of view not a moral point of view.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#465

Post by LiveFrom »

FD3SA wrote: post #309

This is a perfect example of the disconnect between "hackers" and the real world. I consider myself part of the HN community because I hope for a society shaped by its ideals, but the real world is so far removed that time spent here becomes more of a therapeutic escape than anything else. I strongly recommend people study history, and understand human nature at both scientific and societal levels. There is too much…

> This is a perfect example of the disconnect between "hackers" and the real world.

You're reading way too much into this. The OP's story is completely unrelated to "hacker" culture or the faux-libertarian belief system that is fashionable in SF/SV.

The OP's story is a perfect example of what happens when people who believe they're smarter than everyone else play games with people who don't play games. Nothing more. Nothing less.

The OP wrote that he was told by a police officer that his presence was no longer needed and he was explicitly asked to leave the scene. Instead he stayed and as the situation deteriorated just about every one of his actions had the effect of making his situation worse.

The common characteristic of each of the OP's actions? They were driven by the underlying belief that he was smarter than the people he was dealing with. With just a little effort he could convince the police officers to see things his way. And why not? Many "smart" people have never encountered a tricky situation they weren't able to wiggle out of using logic and reason.

The OP simply learned that you can be too smart for your own good. But let's be clear... as bad as the police state is don't pretend that there aren't other groups that would have responded even more harshly to the OP's attempts to prove his intellectual superiority.

Lesson? Please, understand that you're probably not that smart. Get yourself into avoidable situations that you have to try to talk your way out of at your own peril.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#466

Post by selimthegrim »

dysoco wrote: post #136

I'm in the completely opposite. Here the police is afraid of taking action, they won't chase a robber for fear of being injured or crash the car (yes, they pay for the police car repair). They are totally useless and some of them are even illiterate. Those are the "good" cops, we also have cops involved with the mafia, this guys are a worse problem than criminals, believe me. So, honestly, I'd rather live in the US.…

Where in Argentina is this so I never go there on vacation?

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#467

Post by thaumasiotes »

javajosh wrote: post #319
Zancarius wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reform will take years, and in that time you are at risk. Reform is a great sentiment... Not to sound overly pessimistic, but "reform" isn't usually how citizens extricate themselves from a police state. Totalitarian governance is inherently insular and well protected from peaceful reform, using the state monopoly on violence to maintain and cultivate its will. The antithesis of peaceful reform also conveniently st…

We don't have a police state! We have one of the shittiest justice systems in the world that protects bad actors and gives our police unlimited power to abuse their office without fear of repurcussion. However, freedom of speech is still very well protected, and therein lies our hope for peaceful resolution. And you know what, if Aung Yung Suu-Ki is any indication, even if we did live in a totalitarian state, there w…

> I don't believe that a state born of brutality can be anything other than brutal.

This is kind of a funny sentiment. Can you name a state that wasn't born of brutality?

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#468

Post by sizzle »

janj wrote: post #97

I posted this in another thread today but it's even more relevant here. We need a way to track when police officers have violent interactions with the public. We should be able to look up any officer and find their history of abuse of authority if it exists to make it easier to identify patterns. We can't trust these people with power if we can't hold them responsible. I would love to help work on this with someone.

much respect if you pull this off, sort of like those mugshot sites that scrape public jail mugshot pics and extort people to remove them from their site-- except for cops and no way to remove the public info. I would donate for features like this.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#469

Post by debt »

andrewfelix wrote: post #460
debt wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyclist breaks the law and then feels entitled to talk down the arresting officers? I can't say it's the first time I've heard this story.

Replace the word 'cyclist' with 'driver', 'woman', 'jew' etc. See where I'm going with this? Your anecdotes are not evidence of a larger problem. All that you're doing is exposing your personal bias. Personally I notice a lot of bad drivers, but I'm not going to then leap to the ridiculous conclusion that drivers think they're above the law. Because there is larger percentage that I don't notice doing the right thing…

We're talking about people with a preference for bicycles not their religion, race or gender. And, yeah, you could replace it with driver, that one at least is valid.

I don't know if you've heard of this rift between cyclists and motorists but it gets pretty heated and intense in urban areas. Typically the people pushing for legislative changes and updates to infrastructure are cyclists. Typically, those cyclists are the militant ones and NOT your "A-to-B style cyclists, just going to and from work with a bike, yeah a bike lane would be nice but whatever"-style cyclists. Many of the militant cyclists hold an attitude similar to parent, which is "yeah I broke the law but fuck the police" which makes it very difficult to enact any change.

I'm talking specifically about the militant cyclists which, like I said, are also the ones attempting to push the cause, enact positive changes, for cyclists.

So.

We can't have MILITANT cyclists(again the ones doing the walking when it comes to updating infrastructure etc.) pervade an attitude that they're above the law because surprise no one will take them seriously and thus no positive changes for cyclists.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#470

Post by chimeracoder »

damian2000 wrote: post #419
maratd wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The worst thing an officer of the was able to do was inconvenience you for a day. Wrong. Job application. Have you ever been arrested? No job. Mortgage application. Have you ever been arrested? No mortgage. No house. Rental application. Have you ever been arrested? No apartment. These are just a few places you will have the door slammed in your face. Now, the OP was lucky, because the matter was dismissed, the arre…

Isn't the wording 'convicted of a crime' rather than 'arrested'... you could be arrested, and then let go without being charged or convicted of anything.

In New York City, landlords will run background checks that check if you've been arrested or appeared in housing court, but not whether or not you were convicted (or even charged!) in the arrests, and not whether you won or lost the housing court case (or even whether you were the plaintiff or defendant).

It's incredibly pro-landlord, but because there's a shortage of housing supply, they can get away with it.

Only source I can remember for this offhand is behind a paywall, but I used to work in drug policy, so this is something I've witnessed many times: http://bklynr.com/arrested-developments/

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