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How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

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Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#451

Post by praxulus »

late2part wrote: post #427
moheeb wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No...more like "leave when the cops show up". What is some drunk yahoo gonna do to help after the call has been made? I'm sure the cops have all kinds of anecdotes about how helpful the drunks loitering around a scene at 1AM are!

I don't believe the police have any right to give a lawful order to compel a citizen from leaving a public area unless there is a public disturbance or danger. The samaritan, according to her own story, was not creating a problem. 3 drinks in 3 hours makes few people intoxicated. The people have a right, nay, an obligation, to resist unlawful orders. If her story is true and accurate, that law enforcement officer and…

There's a difference between what the cops have a right to do and what they will, in practice, do to you if you don't give them the respect they have come to expect. E.g. this story.

Nobody, least of all the black community, are saying it's right, they're just saying it's naive to think the world works any other way.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#452

Post by dllthomas »

grecy wrote: post #303
herbig wrote: post #240

Back in November, I was arrested in Brooklyn for running a red light on my bike while on my way to work in Manhattan. Normally you're given a ticket and let go, but in this instance, the officers took issue with the fact that I was not carrying ID. Both officers told me that I "could be arrested for not having ID." For clarification, I asked if it was a city, state, or national law, and the officers adamantly maintai…

Thanks for sharing. When I read stories like this and the original article, I genuinely wonder how long it will be before the people start to fight back. And I mean literally fight. I'm not for a second suggesting that any individual should fight or even argue with the police, but I can't imagine how an entire society can tolerate this kind of behavior from the police. As much as I hate to say it, it really only seem…

We should at least fight back at the voting booths. Pay attention to local politics!

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#453

Post by dllthomas »

jjoonathan wrote: post #450
pessimizer wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more clarification: never talk to police. Give your name, ask for a lawyer. I'm sure there's a few lawyers out there who think that even giving your name is too much of a risk.

But we just got done establishing that police officers have 1) The authority to imprison you on a whim and suffer no repercussions for exercising that authority in ways that judges and other police officers agree is excessive. 2) The authority to lie about what you said or didn't say and suffer no repercussions. There's a large cost associated with the "never talk to police" strategy, and it only starts to probabilis…

It's easier for them to misremember what you said (or "misremember" what you said) when you said something then when you said nothing at all. I believe that - on most police forces - even the most problematic officers are worried about telling outright lies that might be shown to be outright lies.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#454

Post by maxerickson »

swombat wrote: post #363
justizin wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SFPD are going down this road, OPD (Oakland) and many others already do, but the officers often find an excuse for their camera to malfunction when they want, and in many cases they are instructed to turn the camera on themselves before interacting with anyone, and they simply don't. It turns out that telling the cops what to do isn't very effective.

It's high time to make the cops wear video cameras that are permanently turned on while on duty, and to make it a penalisable infraction for them to obstruct the camera without filling in reams of paperwork to justify it afterwards. FTFY. Or... Even better... It's high time to hire better cops.

It doesn't even need to be enforced. Just give every single cop a reliable camera and make sure that it is well known that they have the things.

Then you can ask them why they don't use the evidence recording device that would remove ambiguity from so many situations.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#455

Post by debt »

andrewfelix wrote: post #433
debt wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole idea that bicyclists somehow are above the law in terms of traffic signals needs to end. We need to start stopping at red lights and stop signs if we're ever to be taken seriously. Time and again I've had conversations with bicyclists friends of mine who are adamant about how helmets are as optional as obeying traffic signals; it's totally hypocritical and asinine. They knowingly break the laws then bitch a…

The post has absolutely nothing to do with cyclists being above the law. Neither do your personal anecdotes about cyclists. Try not make generalisations about groups of people based on your narrow experience.

Cyclist breaks the law and then feels entitled to talk down the arresting officers? I can't say it's the first time I've heard this story.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#456

Post by soup10 »

maratd wrote: post #161

When a cop gives you instructions to leave, you leave. Not because the cop is right, but because this shit happens. And if you're naive enough to think that this shit won't happen to you, try not complying with a cop's instructions. Doesn't matter where in the US you happen to be. It's that simple. Look, here's a simple rule. In every interaction with the police, ask if you can leave. If you can, count your lucky sta…

Seriously lol. Dealing with authorities 101:

1. Be respectful at all times

2. When an authority tells you to do something, do it. Unless you have a really good reason not to. In which case, see 1, and communicate your concern or question.

3. Don't let them push you around/power trip, but stick to 1

4. If shit goes down, don't panic! you'll only make things worse. Accept that your circumstances are temporarily out of your control, be patient and non-confrontational.

The world is not made of rainbows and flowers, there are plenty of self-important people with some kind of authority over you. Generally speaking though, unless you have to constantly interact with them, like a boss, they don't matter. The less interaction and thought you give them, the sooner you can get away from them and on with your life.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#457

Post by MereInterest »

waqf wrote: post #426
MereInterest wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To any reader, this is a perfect example of the Just World bias and victim blaming. See how Gorbzel makes it clear that the fault of the encounter lies on the victim, not the perpetrator.

This is indeed a perfect example of what is typically called "victim blaming". Where I disagree with you is that I do not read Gorbzel as suggesting that the perpetrator is not at fault: by my reading Gorbzel says nothing one way or the other on that subject. If you read the comment with the preconception that every interaction has one side which is Right and one side which is Wrong, then you will see the cops portra…

I probably should explain my position more fully. The cause of a result and the fault of a result are entirely separate concepts. I think of "cause" as anything that, when prevented, would prevent the final result. By this definition, both the officer and the author caused the abuse and arrest.

However, "fault" is in the deviation from a perfect world that caused the result. The author, showing concern and asking about the well-being of another person, is not at fault for the abuse he received. The police officer, abusing his position, is at fault.

To apply these to your example of your stolen laptop, I would say that it was partially caused by you, but was not your fault.

The way that I read Gorbzel's comment as that both cause and fault were on the author, not just cause.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#459

Post by late2part »

praxulus wrote: post #451
late2part wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe the police have any right to give a lawful order to compel a citizen from leaving a public area unless there is a public disturbance or danger. The samaritan, according to her own story, was not creating a problem. 3 drinks in 3 hours makes few people intoxicated. The people have a right, nay, an obligation, to resist unlawful orders. If her story is true and accurate, that law enforcement officer and…

There's a difference between what the cops have a right to do and what they will, in practice, do to you if you don't give them the respect they have come to expect. E.g. this story. Nobody, least of all the black community, are saying it's right, they're just saying it's naive to think the world works any other way.

I'm conflicted. I agree avoiding law enforcement is a good idea, and I'm pretty straight and narrow. Too many stories like this and shooting dogs. But I feel like a coward absenting myself from the tyranny. Like someone else said, we the people are starting to get more and more fed up.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#460

Post by andrewfelix »

debt wrote: post #455
andrewfelix wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post has absolutely nothing to do with cyclists being above the law. Neither do your personal anecdotes about cyclists. Try not make generalisations about groups of people based on your narrow experience.

Cyclist breaks the law and then feels entitled to talk down the arresting officers? I can't say it's the first time I've heard this story.

Replace the word 'cyclist' with 'driver', 'woman', 'jew' etc. See where I'm going with this? Your anecdotes are not evidence of a larger problem. All that you're doing is exposing your personal bias.

Personally I notice a lot of bad drivers, but I'm not going to then leap to the ridiculous conclusion that drivers think they're above the law. Because there is larger percentage that I don't notice doing the right thing, just like with [insert chosen group here].

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