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How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

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Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#441

Post by mahyarm »

Fizzadar wrote: post #232
mahyarm wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has similar stories of being horrible in spots too, look at french jails for example: http://www.newsweek.com/french-prisons-are-becoming-embarras...

Thanks for the link, really interesting/enlightening read. I would hope, at least, that Europe's police officers are on the whole less pointlessly violent (though, as Peretz points out the majority of SF police probably don't act as such).

I've heard of similar bad behavior from spanish and french police forces in general. I wouldn't be surprised you see it in almost all of the southern european countries. When you start getting into germanic/english/scandinavian countries you start hearing the opposite, but even then you hear of controversial behavior during big political protests in england & canada. I'm not going into the eastern european countries since they are still developing nations for the most part.

Japan for another example has scary high conviction rates, even though it's a very safe country where police will probably never harass you. Once a prosecutor there goes ahead with a trial, your pretty much guaranteed to be going to jail.

I'm not trying to be morally relativistic here and saying your screwed everywhere, but law enforcement systems show this systemic flaw in their organizations in general. How much they control the bad behaviors is up to the culture and design of the incentives. The better designed ones will have a much better probability of not screwing you over. But most people, including unexposed Americans, don't realize the unjust nastiness of law enforcement gone bad and think police are a good thing in developed nations, just like you do in europe.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#442

Post by debt »

nopassrecover wrote: post #421
debt wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is, why contest anything in that moment? You just broke the law and could've potentially caused serious bodily harm to someone. I feel like there's a small window an officer gives you to get out of the ticket. They walk up. They ask you what you did wrong. You tell them. Everyone moves on. Sometimes they write a ticket or a warning. Parent dude completely and intentionally overcomplicated the situation. Wast…

In terms of practicality "shut up and don't ask questions" is certainly going to be minimum hassle. But when the police threatened additional punishments for not having his ID he was perfectly justified in questioning them on the legitimacy of that claim. Acting within your rights shouldn't be punished because it's inconvenient.

I agree, but like some other commenter said about hackers needing a reality check; only the most disconnected of people would attempt to "educate" a police officer about the law. Why would he do that? I'm not justifying the officer's reaction, but, really, what did he think was going to happen? Most officers probably just aren't in the mood to deal with your shit; I'm not saying that's a good thing I'm just saying it's the reality of the situation.

Aside from all that, aren't us hackers trained to never say a damn word to a police officer let alone "educate" them about anything?

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#443

Post by hmsimha »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #358
BlackDeath3 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not necessarily talking about the current top comment in this particular thread. Christ, man. Why do so many people attempt a proof-by-example and then act surprised when it fails to convince?

Um, so your two arguments so far have been: "The person I'm responding to LITERALLY said he wanted all police to die" "Well, he didn't literally say that, in fact, he didn't say anything close to that". "fuck the police shouldn't be the top comment" evidence is presented to the contrary "Dude, its not like I meant THIS top comment". There's no chance you're anything but a troll or stupid, so either way, I'm wasting m…

BlackDeath3's argument was that a voting system is the means through which the best comments, as deemed by the majority of users, receive the most exposure. You misunderstood them and referred them to the current top comment, pointing out that it was quite substantial. Without realizing it though, you were demonstrating their point.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#444

Post by nutate »

yardie wrote: post #407
nutate wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a white person thrown into psychiatric solitary a couple times, I'd say that he got pretty cushy treatment compared to what black folks get. No trial, out in 12 hours? Try that if you're black. Sounds crazy, but considering how many questions he was asking the officers after they'd cuffed him he got off quite easy. I wonder if my friends that went to UCSF around the same time as him knew him. I know a lot of folks…

I've spent an entire weekend in holding for resisting arrest. There is no food and nowhere to sleep in holding. On Monday, when I finally met the magistrate, all charges were dropped because nothing happened. When I tell my white friends this story they logically conclude I must have done something, police don't simply "detain" you without cause. Yes, they do. My other friends are much more understanding. Either it h…

Uhh... dude that was your fault for getting arrested on a weekend. Duh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remand_(detention)

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment

are really important subjects for people who want to understand their freedoms. If you are a danger to yourself, others or gravely disabled you may be taken into a hospital and honestly you should be. If you are arrested, you might be held for up to 72 hours in the US. I think there are a lot of really good reasons for those laws honestly, but they can trip up people who are focusing on broad constitutional aphorisms instead of real state and local policy.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#445

Post by droopybuns »

hmsimha wrote: post #388
janj wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Brandeis '01, I was a little surprised to see that link. Along with justice for this individual event what about something bigger. Right now there is no way to track these violent interactions officers have with the public. This police officer can do the same thing over and over and get away with it because the precinct will protect her. What if we had a way to keep track of these incidents making it easy for us…

I love this idea. Also, the ability to track police abuse-of-power/brutality instances by location would be extremely useful.

This would make an outstanding .onion site.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#446

Post by dllthomas »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #424
dllthomas wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it sad that the officer could be a "joke around the precinct" - presumably incompetent and apparently eager to abuse their power - and still be an officer.

Police solidarity, and labor unions, for the win!

Yup. Police solidarity over fair treatment and good pay is something I approve of. Police solidarity protecting police misconduct is a threat to the public and should be dealt with accordingly.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#447

Post by dllthomas »

pessimizer wrote: post #373
kevinskii wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit more clarification still: Anything you say to them while in custody cannot be used unless you have been Mirandized.

Even more clarification: never talk to police. Give your name, ask for a lawyer. I'm sure there's a few lawyers out there who think that even giving your name is too much of a risk.

I think it's a problem that this is the case, but ignoring it doesn't make it not the case. So I agree: if you have the choice of talking to the cops, don't; if you have to, wait for your lawyer. But let's give some thoughts to how we can un-fuck this part of the system, yeah?

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#448

Post by samstave »

herbig wrote: post #240

Back in November, I was arrested in Brooklyn for running a red light on my bike while on my way to work in Manhattan. Normally you're given a ticket and let go, but in this instance, the officers took issue with the fact that I was not carrying ID. Both officers told me that I "could be arrested for not having ID." For clarification, I asked if it was a city, state, or national law, and the officers adamantly maintai…

There should be an app where anyone accused of a crime/citation by a cop, could open the app up and enter the citation and get info/advice.

Initial app response is all automated.

"Consult my Lawyer" it should be called... You could choose to pay a fee to push it to a live legal person and seek a lawyer. Record audio during the encounter and have it attach to the incident.

Even video.

And the entire thing should be protected by law as a right to defend a truthful position.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#449

Post by lettergram »

rtkwe wrote: post #122
lettergram wrote: post #61

I would press charges. I have seen multiple times police being shady, including one time when I was pulled over and told I could either pay the officer $40, or go into the court house for an $80 ticket. Supposedly I was speeding the road back, but I didn't even drive on the road they were talking about... Another time I turned in $2,000 I found in an envelope and asked when I could pick it up if no one claimed it. Ca…

You didn't get a receipt did you? Any time cops take anything get a receipt...

I wrote a report, figured that was enough... oops.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#450

Post by jjoonathan »

pessimizer wrote: post #373
kevinskii wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit more clarification still: Anything you say to them while in custody cannot be used unless you have been Mirandized.

Even more clarification: never talk to police. Give your name, ask for a lawyer. I'm sure there's a few lawyers out there who think that even giving your name is too much of a risk.

But we just got done establishing that police officers have

1) The authority to imprison you on a whim and suffer no repercussions for exercising that authority in ways that judges and other police officers agree is excessive.

2) The authority to lie about what you said or didn't say and suffer no repercussions.

There's a large cost associated with the "never talk to police" strategy, and it only starts to probabilistically pay off after you've gotten to the point of requiring complex court proceedings (which you might never have gotten to if you were more cooperative in the first place).

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