Reports like these make me wonder what Hacker News would have looked like during the gold rush in the 1800s.
Show HN: Levis 501
Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen
231–240 of 555 posts
Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen
#232This is seriously the most hilarious thing I have read in a long time. Here we have a group of objectivist libertarians who believe that there should be effectively no laws other than the law of economics and self-interest who run an illegal website devoted to the pure greed of cashing in on contraband, and this is what they write: "I’ve included transaction logs at the bottom of this message. Review the vendor’s dis…
Haha, exactly! I'm here at work sitting with a big grin on my face for the last few minutes..Unless Silkroad themselves are lying, which I think is very possible.
Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you have a deep misunderstanding of libertarianism (which is your right of course). Libertarians don't necessarily not believe in laws, they simply don't believe in a monopoly of laws and law enforcers. This is kind of the whole point. Its clear that in your world view "justice" is somehow inexorably tied to government, but there others that disagree (which leads to your confusion in thinking that because som…
I honestly don't get this. If there isn't a monopoly on laws and law enforcement, does that mean that victims of crimes should be able to shop around to get the law enforcement agency that they want? Should the accused? Is there any historical precedent for anything like this actually working?
> Is there any historical precedent for anything like this actually working?
Well, in some locations you might be able to buy 'protection' from a number of different organised crime groups. While it's not exactly a historic precedent, the Millet system also had some similiarities.
Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are currently thousands of different sets of laws and legal systems that you can choose to subscribe/submit to. Potential victims of crimes can shop around for the legal system that they prefer, and those who intend to commit crimes can do the same. Generally this "shopping around" cannot be done retroactively; there are a few exceptions to this however. The way that you pick the one that you wish to be associa…
That doesn't do anything to answer my question about where libertarians stand on the question. I still don't get what a civilization without a "monopoly on laws and law enforcement" would look like.
One possibility is mob rule in the absence of a strong central government - frontier justice, lynch mobs, posses, warlords, the whole thing.
Think about how exciting that would be! I, for one, look forward to this possible Mad Max-style libertarian future... I mean who doesn't like improvised body armor with lots of spikes and things?
Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
But this isn't a beta test. People treat Bitcoin as if it's ready for primetime and ready to replace traditional currency.
Yes, there's never limits on cash withdrawl in the glorious banking system. [0] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717
If one of the main bullet points of your currency replacement is that "it's frictionless unlike regular money", and you ever find yourself pointing the finger at regular money and saying "it has frictions too" you already lost the argument.
Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are currently thousands of different sets of laws and legal systems that you can choose to subscribe/submit to. Potential victims of crimes can shop around for the legal system that they prefer, and those who intend to commit crimes can do the same. Generally this "shopping around" cannot be done retroactively; there are a few exceptions to this however. The way that you pick the one that you wish to be associa…
That doesn't do anything to answer my question about where libertarians stand on the question. I still don't get what a civilization without a "monopoly on laws and law enforcement" would look like.
I am giving you an example (present, and historical) of multiple legal systems coexisting, where predators and ordinary people can shop around for the legal system that best fits their needs and desires.
Whether that does or does not have anything to do with libertarianism, you can decide.
Perhaps the most famous examples of legal systems exceeding traditional spatial and temporal bounds can be found in the aftermath of WWII. Adolf Eichmann for example was kidnapped in Argentina by Mossad agents and smuggled out of the country. This could be considered, in effect, a violation of of the Argentinian legal system's monopoly on law and order within the borders of Argentina.
Does that have anything to do with libertarianism? I don't know; I don't really care. It's just an interesting example of monopolies on laws and law enforcement not being hard and fast. History is full of such examples.
Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen
#237This is seriously the most hilarious thing I have read in a long time. Here we have a group of objectivist libertarians who believe that there should be effectively no laws other than the law of economics and self-interest who run an illegal website devoted to the pure greed of cashing in on contraband, and this is what they write: "I’ve included transaction logs at the bottom of this message. Review the vendor’s dis…
You're reading "justice" here to be synonymous with government action. "Whatever means" = their "community" doing whatever it takes to achieve their goals, period. The author is essentially threatening murder, kidnapping, extortion, or worse and encouraging the members of the site to help make it happen.
Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
"they simply don't believe in a monopoly of laws and law enforcers" Ahahahahaah! That's the same as not having laws! And even then, what you're saying is they believe someone should bring this guy to justice...and then do nothing to him. Then it's not justice. You're killing me my friends. Just killing me here.
I've been having conversations on this topic recently with a libertarian who grew up in the Soviet Union. Let's just say, when you've seen laws and law enforcers monopolized by villains, it becomes quite hard to accept that justice is whatever the government and courts say it should be. While I personally like law and order, when the choice is mob justice or a police state, there are some definite advantages to mob j…
That actually alludes to something I noticed recently: Libertarians tend to come from countries with shitty governments, which makes sense. You're likely to be far more suspicious of the idea of government regulation if your government has a history of incompetence and malice than if you come from a country whose government, while imperfect, mostly just works.
Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen
#239Sounds like Defcon got the excuse he needed to line his pockets with all of the Silk Road 2 money.
I don't run a marketplace, but I would assume that an alarm protocol would be implemented and triggered when thousands of bitcoins start to drain out of "hot storage".
Exploiting the transaction malleability bug wouldn't net you 4,500 BTC at once. It would take a lot of requests of broken transactions to drain the entire marketplace of thousands of BTC. Defcon and SR2 should have been on high alert for this kind of problem after the Mt. Gox announcement.
Anyone who runs a Bitcoin marketplace would not be "slow to respond and skeptical of the issue at hand", especially not when the entire balance of the marketplace is in such a vulnerable state.
Defcon has been around this business for years, he isn't an amateur. How could he make such a fundamental, incredibly ignorant error?
Even if we believe the "bad luck, terrible timing" explanation, Defcon's lack of caution and general awareness is simply inexplicable. There is no way he would be so nonchalant about any kind of fault in the Bitcoin protocol with everyone's money sitting out in the open, just waiting to be stolen.
I think the moral of this story is to not open an account with an anonymous exchange. Instead, open an account with a marketplace backed by some high-profile VC's who have some skin in the game. You can bet that Andreesen isn't going to be careless and ignorant enough to let the same thing happen to Coinbase. Not when he's got $25m and his invaluable image on the line.
Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you have a deep misunderstanding of libertarianism (which is your right of course). Libertarians don't necessarily not believe in laws, they simply don't believe in a monopoly of laws and law enforcers. This is kind of the whole point. Its clear that in your world view "justice" is somehow inexorably tied to government, but there others that disagree (which leads to your confusion in thinking that because som…
I honestly don't get this. If there isn't a monopoly on laws and law enforcement, does that mean that victims of crimes should be able to shop around to get the law enforcement agency that they want? Should the accused? Is there any historical precedent for anything like this actually working?
Iceland, in the age of the sagas, 1000-1300 or so. Here is a link to layperson's overview: