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Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

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Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#181

Post by zedshaw »

foxhill wrote: post #172
zedshaw wrote: post #133

This is seriously the most hilarious thing I have read in a long time. Here we have a group of objectivist libertarians who believe that there should be effectively no laws other than the law of economics and self-interest who run an illegal website devoted to the pure greed of cashing in on contraband, and this is what they write: "I’ve included transaction logs at the bottom of this message. Review the vendor’s dis…

this is seriously the most hilarious response to a hacker news thread i have seen in a long time. it's got it all; > Here we have a group of objectivist libertarians wild conjecture? you bet. > who believe that there should be effectively no laws other than the law of economics and self-interest please, tell me, what else do they think? perhaps next you can tell me what i think, i'd love to hear it. > We need the gov…

Haha, Ted Bundy? The ultimate strawman slippery slope argument!

Oh so good, all your defenses do nothing but point out the deeper contradictions in the statements. Seriously go back and read your replies to my replies. They're even funnier.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#182

Post by zedshaw »

joeblau wrote: post #151
zedshaw wrote: post #133

This is seriously the most hilarious thing I have read in a long time. Here we have a group of objectivist libertarians who believe that there should be effectively no laws other than the law of economics and self-interest who run an illegal website devoted to the pure greed of cashing in on contraband, and this is what they write: "I’ve included transaction logs at the bottom of this message. Review the vendor’s dis…

What would be really ironic is if it was a Government agency which pulled off the heist.

Oooooh, I like how you think. Oh! Or, if SR2 was a government sting operation? I smell a movie script.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#183

Post by wallawe »

kyro wrote: post #162
zedshaw wrote: post #133

This is seriously the most hilarious thing I have read in a long time. Here we have a group of objectivist libertarians who believe that there should be effectively no laws other than the law of economics and self-interest who run an illegal website devoted to the pure greed of cashing in on contraband, and this is what they write: "I’ve included transaction logs at the bottom of this message. Review the vendor’s dis…

I notice this quite a bit amongst my libertarian acquaintances. They tend to believe in a world built on complete freedom to exercise self-interest provided their self-interests are to be held up no matter the cost or damage to others and society. Once they get burned or outwitted by others serving their own interests, they cry injustice in the world as if it never existed before.

Libertarians believe in a freedom of choice, but not at the expense of others. By your interpretation, murder would be justifiable if it were "serving [one's] own interests." You've missed the distinction.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#184

Post by aaronem »

ewoodrich wrote: post #177
tolmasky wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have a deep misunderstanding of libertarianism (which is your right of course). Libertarians don't necessarily not believe in laws, they simply don't believe in a monopoly of laws and law enforcers. This is kind of the whole point. Its clear that in your world view "justice" is somehow inexorably tied to government, but there others that disagree (which leads to your confusion in thinking that because som…

So if some group decided I was a criminal by their standards (say if I insulted them on the street, or something), they could come to my home in the night and summarily execute me?

Your common or garden libertarian will construct all manner of complex arguments as to how that isn't so, but there's really nothing in the philosophy which forbids it.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#185

Post by SixSigma »

interstitial wrote: post #110
oskarth wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conflating law with ethics. Becoming more prevalent as the number of laws increase. I can't back it up with science (someone know of any research?), but it sure seems to be a trend when you compare among countries in various stages.

Well, Nuremberg trials and the American revolution show that ethics are above law in many peoples minds at least when convenient. And in many ways, opposite expressions of the notion of Natural Law vs. State. (not Socrates, of course)

Is that the Nueremburg trials that von Braun was prosecuted at? Because the history of that trial showed me that justice is applied at the prosecution's convenience rather than in the cause of justice, even for the most reprehensible.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#186

Post by Houshalter »

zedshaw wrote: post #133

This is seriously the most hilarious thing I have read in a long time. Here we have a group of objectivist libertarians who believe that there should be effectively no laws other than the law of economics and self-interest who run an illegal website devoted to the pure greed of cashing in on contraband, and this is what they write: "I’ve included transaction logs at the bottom of this message. Review the vendor’s dis…

I don't imagine everyone that uses the site is libertarian, not all libertarians are anarcho-capitalists, nor are they all objectivists. Some people just oppose drug prohibition, or the banking system, or whatever. Nor was anything in there appealing to the government or any other "hypocritical" thing. This is the kind of comment I would expect to find on /r/politics, not hacker news.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#187

Post by ericb »

Malician wrote: post #114
sliverstorm wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SR1 was a criminal enterprise as well, and there's no indication DPR was stealing from his users That reminds me of arguing along the lines of, I played Russian Roulette before, and I didn't lose. Therefore, I will not lose this time either.

Allegedly, SR2 was setup in ways which made it much, much easier to run off with larger quantities of money than with SR1. Given the circumstances, you could reasonably conclude this would happen.

Running off with the money is probably the smart move. The quicker you can get off the radar with something like this, the better your chance of not ending up in jail. It is entirely possible they are made for life, and with no more incoming transactions, if they haven't left a trail, they can have their cake and eat it too.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#188

Post by Crito »

MartinCron wrote: post #176
tolmasky wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have a deep misunderstanding of libertarianism (which is your right of course). Libertarians don't necessarily not believe in laws, they simply don't believe in a monopoly of laws and law enforcers. This is kind of the whole point. Its clear that in your world view "justice" is somehow inexorably tied to government, but there others that disagree (which leads to your confusion in thinking that because som…

I honestly don't get this. If there isn't a monopoly on laws and law enforcement, does that mean that victims of crimes should be able to shop around to get the law enforcement agency that they want? Should the accused? Is there any historical precedent for anything like this actually working?

There are currently thousands of different sets of laws and legal systems that you can choose to subscribe/submit to.

Potential victims of crimes can shop around for the legal system that they prefer, and those who intend to commit crimes can do the same. Generally this "shopping around" cannot be done retroactively; there are a few exceptions to this however.

The way that you pick the one that you wish to be associated with is to change your physical location. This has traditionally been an intuitive system (so intuitive that many people experience difficulty when trying to imagine alternatives) however it does not necessarily work well when there is no geographic relationship between victims and perpetrators.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#189

Post by aaronem »

MartinCron wrote: post #176
tolmasky wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have a deep misunderstanding of libertarianism (which is your right of course). Libertarians don't necessarily not believe in laws, they simply don't believe in a monopoly of laws and law enforcers. This is kind of the whole point. Its clear that in your world view "justice" is somehow inexorably tied to government, but there others that disagree (which leads to your confusion in thinking that because som…

I honestly don't get this. If there isn't a monopoly on laws and law enforcement, does that mean that victims of crimes should be able to shop around to get the law enforcement agency that they want? Should the accused? Is there any historical precedent for anything like this actually working?

Not in the slightest, but the besetting flaw of libertarians is the belief that history has nothing to teach them save what they desire to learn, and that the existence of government, in one form or another, throughout recorded human history, implies nothing whatsoever regarding the viability of their particular flavor of utopianism.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#190

Post by yscale »

mscarborough wrote: post #8
jfasi wrote: post #3

Given illegal nature of Silk Road 2, I can't help but be suspicious of this explanation of the hack. If someone's sufficiently willing to flaunt laws as to operate a site devoted to selling contraband, what stops them from taking advantage of their position of power and stealing from their users?

This is also the guy that just talked a bunch of trash about the last Dread Pirate Roberts, and how he was so much better about security. Jinxed yourself, bro. Granted this was supposedly in the Bitcoin protocol itself, but for real, there's really never any need to stick your neck out to talk about how great your security is...

* this was supposedly in the Bitcoin protocol itself*

Cue a line of BTC-promoting ostriches claiming that the protocol is fan-fucking-tastic and in no need of improvement.

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