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How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

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Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#81
post #38

The narrative is totally not credible. There are gaps where its obvious that the author did something to elicit a reaction, but what that was is omitted from the story. My guess would be that the author was being a smart ass, and given the drinking more belligerent than he recalls in retrospect. No, the cops shouldn't have roughed him up just for being a pompous asshole,[1] but the author should tell the whole story.…

Just to provide a data point: I know the OP personally. I can't be sure that there are no omissions, but him saying things like that is not surprising and it doesn't feel like there are holes. His particular demeanor and pattern of speech would likely make it seem not so much pompous as just eccentric. He's very obviously earnest, and not in the naive way often encountered in the Bay Area these days. Trying to show you are "an upstanding citizen" in some way is an expression of privilege: the expectation that you can demonstrate membership of a group that is not automatically assumed to be guilty. To me, one of the core points of this story is that you can never assume you won't be perceived as a member of a group not so advantaged.

Were I not very familiar with him, an interpretation such as yours would definitely be one of my high probability estimates, which is what compelled me to add my views. Take it as you will.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#82

Generally I disagree that litigation is ever the answer. But in this case OP should take their jobs because they don't deserve to wear the badge. I admit that I dislike cops and that I've never had a positive interaction with one. But there are some cops who legitimately want to do a good job and make their city safer. And these guys are shitting all over that.

What kind of idealistic fantasyland do you live in where litigation is never the answer?

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#84
post #38

The narrative is totally not credible. There are gaps where its obvious that the author did something to elicit a reaction, but what that was is omitted from the story. My guess would be that the author was being a smart ass, and given the drinking more belligerent than he recalls in retrospect. No, the cops shouldn't have roughed him up just for being a pompous asshole,[1] but the author should tell the whole story.…

You are absolutely wrong. Almost the exact same thing happened to me, about 400 miles south, last January. Many of the details are even eerily similar. Your claims of omission are totally baseless, and I would guess driven by the same sort of illusions I used to have about the police, their role in our society, and the mechanisms that are in place to deal with bad apples.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said, don't give two shits. The risk is too high. All pigs are evil to me and I'll keep the hell away from them. If they abused a white woman in her 30's what the hell do you think they'll do to a latino like me? Pfff.

Your mistake is your idea of "they". They aren't all one. I don't know that I can blame you for taking the "safe" approach and avoiding police, but don't punish them for your irrationally-negative outlook.

I don't find the parent's attitude irrational at all. If police brutality was a rare unicorn-like event, then I could understand your point of view, but it's not. Not even remotely so.

I've been lucky in that my interactions with police have ranged from professionally neutral (mostly traffic cops) to indifferent and bored (cop at a police station clearly not giving two shits that I'd just been mugged). (Of course, me being a white male helps with this "luck".) But the stuff I hear about makes me wonder: if I need the police at any point in time, what are my chances of getting a cop that's helpful vs. one that's on a power trip and wants to fuck with me?

I seriously wonder about that, and I seriously will think twice about calling 911 in an emergency. And that's the problem. It doesn't matter one bit what the percentage is: maybe 0.00001% of cops are bad, and the rest are good. But the perception is that a significant portion of cops are just power-hungry assholes who love being able to strap on a gun and show that they have authority over you. Perception matters more than reality sometimes.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#86
post #46

After reading the first paragraph I already knew where this was headed. White America welcome to black America. You'll be arrested for nothing at all. The first time it happens you'll be really upset and threaten to sue, and file a police report. And when you do there will be some sort of roadblock, they won't have the forms, the officer in question wasn't on shift that night, the detective is quite hostile to you, t…

[deleted]

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#87

And this is why I fucking HATE COPS. I don't care if it's the few, this god damn country-wide gang is a piece of shit and I will do everything I can to avoid them and teach my two children about staying away as well. Fuck these pigs.

It's really easy to focus on the bad ones, but good cops exist whether you know it or not.

No one is denying that good cops do exist.

The problem is that (especially for minorities in large cities) calling for the police is a gamble.

That many white, suburban kids are taught from a young age that "all police are your friends, you can always go to them if you need help" and that many minorities in cities are taught from a young age "cops are people near complete immunity, great authority and guns; they are to be feared; you would do best to avoid them at all costs and if you must interact with them, be as non-confrontational as possible and if you are arrested say nothing until you have a lawyer".

From the article ...

> I was standing 15 feet from the scene beside Officer Kaur, a stocky female of South Asian complexion. She turned to me and abruptly said that I was not needed as a witness and should leave immediately. I told her we were headed home, just across the way, when my friend and I encountered the accident; and that I’d recently broken my elbow in a similar bike accident here and deeply cared about the outcome.

The cop told the author to leave, the author indicated otherwise.

I guess the author got the "police are your friends" story growing up, not the "avoid at all costs and be non-confrontational if you cannot" story.

Every time the author got confrontational, the situation worsened. Want a doctor? Solitary.

From here, the next thing is "but what about the author's rights? even if the cops don't like you, you still have rights!". Sure, and exercising your rights is inconvenient, at times requiring things like going to jail until things are sorted out.

For a cop arresting you, it's just another day at work. For you, it's missing work unexpectedly, maybe some legal bills, worrying who is watching your kid in a few hours, etc. Your life goes upside for a bit even if charges are ultimately dropped or if the first time in front of a judge your lawyer convinces the judge to throw out the case. You have everything to lose and they/the system/etc. have nothing to lose (except for once in a while when it gets really bad and there's a huge lawsuit, like this recent local story[0], unless you've got some clout, in which case the mayor will call to see how you're doing[1]).

[0] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/nyregion/man-51-dies-in-th...

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/14/nyregion/de-blasio-defends...

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#88
I know Peretz personally and he's one of the most rational people I've ever met. There's some question as to whether he should've left the scene or not and I think there's some discussion to be had there, but what happened afterwards is unquestionably wrong.

This is who the police stripped naked and put in jail: http://www.brandeis.edu/magazine/2013/spring/featured-storie...

This is not a person we should fear. I understand that on some level putting Peretz in jail was a reasonable response to him not leaving the scene, but the abuse and brutality of what followed are just plain wrong.

I've heard other thoughts in this thread about not trusting police or that all cops should be killed and I find those to be childish nonsense. For us to have a free and effective society, the rule of law is important and should apply equally to all. I know this isn't always the case but it is the goal. Wishing harm onto authority figures simply muddies the waters.

What I want, and what I think all should want, is justice. The best outcome from Peretz's suffering would be reform and we should work towards that end.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#89
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't necessarily agree with the idea of standing by when you see what you consider to be evil being done, but I think you fail to take a lot of factors into account here.

Where are the good cops when things like this happen? Why don't they speak out? Why don't they throw their bad-cop colleagues under the bus? Nope. The supposed good cops are bad too.

I'll respond to this in the same way that I responded to another user posing the same questions.

Who says that they don't speak out about this sort of stuff? How many good cops do condemn this behavior? How many of them do you not hear about? What happens to cops who condemn other cops?

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#90
I had a similar experience, and honestly, I have been afraid to go to City Hall and speak to the elected officials I have personally met many times because I fear that my initial arrest for public intoxication while standing outside a bar which I planned to take a cab home from, smoking a cigarette, was retaliation for participating in protests, and that I will be retaliated against worst. I happened to be out celebrating a new job, so making me miss the last day of my old job was not much punishment, but I'd rather not go through that again. Fortunately I was out with the manager of the restaurant at my gym, who brought my bag to meet me the next morning, where I was able to take a shower before going to sign onboarding paperwork.

I don't feel safe in San Francisco anymore.

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