Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

deepdotweb.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 555 posts

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#91

Post by mbillie1 »

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #73
mbillie1 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between supporting a free and peaceful drug trade and participating in a very-much illegal drug trade. It's possible to be a hemp-wearing, tree-hugging hippie and be pro-death penalty - it also happens to be rare.

the law has very little to do with supporting freedom and peace these days.

That is very true, but there's still an enormous chasm for your average person between being mostly-law-abiding (I'm not counting things like jaywalking or going 5mph over the limit) and participating in drug sales, which could land you life in prison. Hell, I think drug laws are incredibly unjust in the US, and that the government is overstepping its bounds left and right. By no means should you infer from this that I'm not careful of the legality of my actions. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that someone participating in a life-in-prison-risking drug enterprise would also be willing to make other illegal/immoral decisions - in fact I think it would be foolish and naive NOT to assume that as a default, despite the fact that it will of course not be true in every case.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#92

Post by sliverstorm »

redthrowaway wrote: post #42
short_circut wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is roughly what I thought when I saw this. These people are dealing with criminal enterprises. What do they expect?

SR1 was a criminal enterprise as well, and there's no indication DPR was stealing from his users. Trust is at least as valuable in the criminal world as it is in legitimate enterprise, if not more so. A criminal who runs a trustworthy criminal enterprise is likelier to do well in the long run than one who rips off his customers.

SR1 was a criminal enterprise as well, and there's no indication DPR was stealing from his users

That reminds me of arguing along the lines of, I played Russian Roulette before, and I didn't lose. Therefore, I will not lose this time either.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#93

Post by dangrossman »

poolpool wrote: post #37
theswan wrote: post #15

Not having very much knowledge about the financial industry - is this also an issue with marketplaces that deal with fiat monies? i.e. Dwolla, Balanced, Stripe, Venmo, all serve as intermediaries for moving money - do these companies have bank accounts that hold onto massive sums of money? What protections would go into keep those accounts secure?

No because if there are bad charges on my card the bank absorbs them, I am refunded, and I am issued a new card in under 48 hours. If the bank itself collapses the FDIC insures my deposits. Then again if my drug dealer steals all my money I am shit out of luck, much like all the users of this site. I guess it isn't that different at all.

> No because if there are bad charges on my card the bank absorbs them

The transaction is reversed and the money comes back from the merchant it was sent to, your bank doesn't absorb any loss. The only victims of credit card fraud are the stores, not the consumers, not the banks, and not the unauthorized user of the card. Nobody who should have actual liability is actually punished in any way, just innocent retailers, for the most part.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#94

Post by emhart »

swalsh wrote: post #76

My favorite part of bitcoin is just how wild west it always feels. Real money, in very massive quantities is stolen, and there's no authorities who will do anything about it. Old school scams are new again. Crashes happen on a monthly basis. I'm staying out of it in any serious quantities because frankly i'm having too much fun watching it.

It's even more fun with skin in the game.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#95

Post by waterlesscloud »

mbillie1 wrote: post #75
pikachu_is_cool wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what he's trying to say that it's far less likely for a libertarian "legalize drugs" type of person to screw a bunch of people over. Like, when you facilitate selling drugs, there is no victim. Hell, you probably prevented having a victim. When you facilitate selling weapons/assassinations/child porn, there is a victim. The latter type of person would be more likely to victimize his/her customers than the for…

> Like, when you facilitate selling drugs, there is no victim. Ah, I'm pretty sure only libertarians feel this way...

You'd be wrong. Plenty of people on the left say the same thing.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#96

Post by gwern »

binocarlos wrote: post #29
jfasi wrote: post #3

Given illegal nature of Silk Road 2, I can't help but be suspicious of this explanation of the hack. If someone's sufficiently willing to flaunt laws as to operate a site devoted to selling contraband, what stops them from taking advantage of their position of power and stealing from their users?

lol and there was gullible little me thinking 'wow the hackers moved fast'

Well, the hackers did move fast, from the Bitcoin discussions I've been following. That's why it's such a good excuse for the SR2 operators: because it's a real hack, it has a surface plausibility.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#99

Post by hashmap »

aegiso wrote: post #63
jfasi wrote: post #3

Given illegal nature of Silk Road 2, I can't help but be suspicious of this explanation of the hack. If someone's sufficiently willing to flaunt laws as to operate a site devoted to selling contraband, what stops them from taking advantage of their position of power and stealing from their users?

It's entirely possible to be in support of a free and peaceful drug trade, while at the same time being morally against theft. I don't know why you're lumping the two.

This is willful ignorance.

What drug kingpin would ever be morally against theft? Does the fact that this trade is being done via the internet imply that these groups have all adopted some kind of code of honor? DPR of SR1 put out hits on people.

Parent's suspicion is right on the money.

Re: Silk Road 2 Hacked, All Bitcoins Stolen

#100

Post by beat »

weavejester wrote: post #67
beat wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern banking is over 100 years old. There is 100+ years of fraud protection processes, legal experience, etc built into the system, plus a huge and complex industry that has a vested interest in overall currency stability. Bitcoin and other digital currencies are learning firsthand what it means to "disrupt" on this scale. Part of that is learning the hard way what the old industry has known since before any of us…

Modern banking is also largely reversible, so stolen funds can often be recovered, and insurance covers the other cases. Bitcoin has the problem of having irreversible transactions, and it's also a lot more difficult to determine whether or not an account has been legitimately stolen from. I don't think it's the case that the current banking industry is insulated from theft due to superior security. From what I've he…

Reversible transactions are a security mechanism. And not all mainstream financial transactions are reversible - short term bank to bank loans, which can run in the tens of millions of dollars over periods of mere minutes, are not reversible within the transaction process itself (set up another transaction to balance the books if necessary). Of course, this is hardly a realm for consumers! Only a rarified few that have passed stringent regulatory requirements can participate in high-end mechanisms, and they can be booted out easily in case of fraud or failure.

Irreversible, unregulated, software-driven money at the consumer level is a thief's wet dream. It's even more appealing than cash. Money can be stolen from halfway across the globe, anonymously. Digital currencies face security challenges that go far beyond those of the fiat currency so many people despise.

Besides the theft problem, there's the crime problem. Digital currency is extremely convenient for high-dollar criminals like international drug and arms dealers. They're the first big customers, while mainstream businesses lag far, far behind in their own cautious way. This makes governments even more hostile, and civilians as well. And a currency that isn't accepted by the vast majority of legitimate businesses is not terribly useful.

But to your other point... yeah, banking software is not necessarily a paragon of security, any more than any other big enterprise software. But consumer-facing parts are generally fairly limited in scope (worst breach I know of is the recent Target breach), and the really big-money parts are hidden well away from the world and buried under many layers of process as well as software security.

Post reply on HN