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Is the shared economy racist?

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161–170 of 171 posts

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#161

I'm not sure how these services operate, but I wonder if a difference to traditional hotels is that they get applications, rather than reservations on a first come, first served basis? If AirBnB landlords receive applications, maybe they just wait for an attractive one (ie a single male landlord could prefer to rent to attractive women). I'm not trying to defend racism, just wondering how to alleviate the problem. I…

No, at the hotels, you have to wait until you attempt to check in before they discriminate against you.

http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/2/article_13302.php

http://www.queerty.com/gay-couple-told-theres-no-room-at-the...

http://www.advocate.com/news/2007/03/30/gay-couple-turned-aw...

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#162
post #12

I don't think any of this is specific to AirBnb or Uber. What is described here is just plain racism, something that's blatant all over America (some might say, it's what defines America), especially in regards towards black people. The black friend in the story knew this and wasn't surprised. It's only surprising to people who think this is something of the past, as if somehow people have improved and this shouldn't…

The idea that people as a whole change, improve, and become less racist, while romantically appealing, couldn't be further from the truth.

Well, some things improve. We don't have slavery or Jim Crow laws any more.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a preference that one's neighbors be of the same color, or even a preference for a mixture "up to some limit" A common term for that is racism. Are you saying that segregation can spring from racism? I'm not sure that anyone was confused about that.

Literally the next line is qualifying and clarifying the previous statement: "That means that segregation may occur even with communities that consist mostly of non-racist individuals or individual with very low level of racism." I'm not sure that anyone could be confused about that if they aren't emotionally invested in the discussion. And I am not interested in debating things on emotional grounds. If you reallywan…

> Literally the next line is qualifying and clarifying the previous statement

Exactly. What I'm reading here is that "a preference that one's neighbors be of the same color, or even a preference for a mixture 'up to some limit'" is not racism, but can lead to total segregation. I can't see where you're reading something different.

It would have been more interesting for you to clarify that for me, rather than psychologically diagnosing me over the internet.

Is merely having a preference for the race of one's neighbors considered racism in this model, or are those people counted as the non-racist portion of the "communities that consist mostly of non-racist individuals"?

What's a "low level of racism"? Is that what racial preferences are categorized as?

Schelling may be clear about some of these things, but you're not. If I'm getting it wrong, it's because you're doing him a disservice, not because of whatever you're projecting onto me.

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edit: You weren't doing him a disservice, and my interpretation was not wrong. The model is of groups with different preferences of racial balance, and shows that segregation can happen even when only a minority prefer total segregation. The point: in his model, all actors maintain racial preferences, and a 1:1 ratio is considered the opposite of segregation.

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from posts responding to the study on metafilter:

"not that this isn't interesting, but it doesn't take away the 'racist' part - it's not an 'inevitable result of mathematics' unless everyone starts out with a desire for a minimum racial representation. Why would they desire that? Do you seek a neighborhood where 'at least two of my neighbors have brown hair'? Or 'at least two of my neighbors are left-handed'?"

http://www.metafilter.com/52878/Dr-Schellings-neighborhood#1...

or

"It only works when people have a desire to stick to 'their own kind', so racial segregation would only happen if people viewed being around other members of their race as a positive, rather then a neutral.

"You don't see people segregated by hair color, or blood type, or any other genetic trait even when those traits have more effect on the genome? So why would skin color be different, unless there was an underlying sense of 'otherness' caused by skin color.

"Without that underlying sense of otherness, no amount of mathematical mumbo jumbo would cause segregation.

"(by the way, his mathematical models are very naïve, he's basically talking about simple thermodynamics applied to society. If we add 'heat' to cause things to re-randomize slightly and continuously that 'heat' can over come the 'desire' and keep things un-segregated, even if there were a slight desire to keep things segregated)"

http://www.metafilter.com/52878/Dr-Schellings-neighborhood#1...

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I suppose one always want to skew towards the richer in these cases, and race happens to be a commonly held indicator of wealth or lack thereof. It's two ugly things mixing together.

There exists a win-win equilibrium for upper class people. It's an advantage for wealthy, educated blacks to live in mostly white neighborhoods, because it shows that they've "made it" according to the (admittedly racist) standards of success. And it's an advantage for the white majority in such a neighborhood to have a few blacks around to demonstrate how incredibly non-racist they are. (Obviously, the underclass (o…

As a one time wealthy, educated black person, I take offence at this characterization.

I live in mostly white neighborhoods because that's where I and my family wanted to live.

It was not to show that we had "made" it or to give the neighbors the opportunity to demonstrate their lack of racism. I think, far too often, people focus on race and don't realize that class distinctions are frequently better indicators.

On that basis, it seems quite reasonable to choose to live amongst people who are similar to me and not amongst those who aren't.

As it turns out, I'm now in South Africa and it's easier to see my point. Most of my neighbors are black or "colored" but I live near them because it's a nice neighborhood and not becuase of their race.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#165
post #151
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An oxymoron :-), i.e. stereotypes are by definition not backed by reliable data ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stereotype )

What do you call an accurate assessment of a group that may be unflattering or unpleasant? And what if said assessment is correct in 90% of the cases - how do the 10% for whom it fails would feel?

Black people really do commit a lot of crime in America, it's not just a "stereotype". And particularly, young black people, and particularly young black males. Black males between the ages of 14 and 24 commit 27% of all murders, despite being 1% of the population.

It's not scrawny white twitter engineers who are shooting each other in San Francisco

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're referring to the conflict in the former Yugoslavia, a conflict I was actually present for the start of interestingly, then that's a whole different issue and far more complicated.

Wow, I'm glad you explained that. You've defended your point splendidly. Superficially, the continent that had a genocide against one of its ethnic minorities would appear to be more racist and xenophobic. But if it's complicated, well, that changes everything.

Ah yes because Hacker News is the place for a thesis on modern history.

I was being polite: let me be clearer - you are wrong and your comment shows an ignorance of the facts and I suggest you actually read up on said conflicts before spouting nonsense. Better?

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I'm glad you explained that. You've defended your point splendidly. Superficially, the continent that had a genocide against one of its ethnic minorities would appear to be more racist and xenophobic. But if it's complicated, well, that changes everything.

Ah yes because Hacker News is the place for a thesis on modern history. I was being polite: let me be clearer - you are wrong and your comment shows an ignorance of the facts and I suggest you actually read up on said conflicts before spouting nonsense. Better?

Well, no, your comment is equally information-free as the two that proceeded it. "Things are the way I say they are because I say so" remains unpersuasive.

Look, the whole notion of assigning moral value to places based on an arbitrary measure of "racism and xenophobia" is annoying, and if you think that's what's going here maybe you're understandably annoyed. But it feels like you're not even trying to understand what we're actually talking about, and more importantly, it actually IS important that we have measures for social progress if we are to continue to improve. I hope you'd agree.

So, the thing is: it'd be interesting to know what measure you're using such that a place with "institutionalized racism and the undercurrent of subtle racism" (undeniably true! of the US or, one suspects, anywhere else!) is somehow to be regarded as more "racist and xenophobic" than a place where a genocide occurred in one nation against an ethnic minority while its neighbor nations looked on uselessly. If you regard "subtle racism," income inequality, criminal justice problems, social rudeness and so on as a greater problem than that, well... okay, say so. It's obviously ridiculous.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#168
post #106
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...even though sample size is small it rings 100% true" I just want to point attention to the (perhaps ironic) fact this sort of reasoning is exactly the same one used by the (allegedly) racist hosts and drivers in the story, i.e. people are much more prone to accept what they are told (mostly in sample size = 1 cases or anecdotal generalizations) if it aligns well with their beliefs (e.g. "another BnB host told me…

What do you call a stereotype when it is backed by statistical data? The a priori belief that is most common is that no stereotypes are true. It's the polite thing to believe. But if you are of a certain analytical mindset, you can be argued out of it with enough data and anecdotal evidence from friends.

> What do you call a stereotype when it is backed by statistical data?

An inconvenient truth. Or perhaps the elephant in the room.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#169
post #165
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you call an accurate assessment of a group that may be unflattering or unpleasant? And what if said assessment is correct in 90% of the cases - how do the 10% for whom it fails would feel?

Black people really do commit a lot of crime in America, it's not just a "stereotype". And particularly, young black people, and particularly young black males. Black males between the ages of 14 and 24 commit 27% of all murders, despite being 1% of the population. It's not scrawny white twitter engineers who are shooting each other in San Francisco

It's not entirely race. I'm certain that e.g. poverty and lack of opportunity play a role as well. Growing up without access to money, good schools, or positive role models can be crippling to success regardless of race.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#170
post #169
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black people really do commit a lot of crime in America, it's not just a "stereotype". And particularly, young black people, and particularly young black males. Black males between the ages of 14 and 24 commit 27% of all murders, despite being 1% of the population. It's not scrawny white twitter engineers who are shooting each other in San Francisco

It's not entirely race. I'm certain that e.g. poverty and lack of opportunity play a role as well. Growing up without access to money, good schools, or positive role models can be crippling to success regardless of race.

Poor whites and Hispanics aren't nearly as dangerous as poor (young, male) blacks. There is not another comparable group that manages to commit 27% of murders as 1% of the population. That's a huge ratio.

Keep in mind, most black males will never kill anyone. But black males commit a plurality of murders in the US. And 1 in 3 will spend some time in jail in his life. 1 in 7 American black men are in jail at any moment.

Remember, there are more whites in poverty than total blacks in the United States, and blacks commit 48% of murders.

If you're in an urban environment, don't be a progressive hero and try not to avoid young black males. It can be dangerous[1][2]

[1] http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/11/yglesias-i-wasnt-victim-o...

[2] http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/08/all-we-have-to-fear-is-in...

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