Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

evanmrose.tumblr.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 248 posts

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#181

Post by thaumaturgy »

ScottBurson wrote: post #114
thaumaturgy wrote: post #64

Thank you for starting a conversation about this. I know it's difficult, but it's important for the health and wellbeing of many other people struggling with the same problems that there are conversations like this one. I've struggled with depression too, though never been suicidal. Both of my parents made multiple suicide attempts last year. I hope you don't blame yourself for not being there for your brother. You c…

> Both of my parents made multiple suicide attempts last year. Wow. My heart goes out to you. Hang in there.

Thanks.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#182

Post by mikeash »

dreamdu5t wrote: post #178
mikeash wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the specific gene hasn't been identified doesn't mean it isn't known to have genetic factors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder#Cause... "In addition, a Swedish study estimated the heritability of depression—the degree to which individual differences in occurrence are associated with genetic differences—to be around 40% for women and 30% for men...." You seem to think that we must ei…

No, I think psychology has medicalized a range of normal emotions and behaviors, like sadness and anger for example, and that there is not necessarily any such disease as depression. I know that's not PC and some may find that shocking, but it's pretty plausible when you look at the history of psychology. Since I've already crossed the PC/shocking line... It's amazing the similarities between SSRI's and lobotomy. The…

I'm not shocked. It's a sadly common opinion. I do think you're full of shit, though.

Depression is completely different from things like sadness and anger. There is a superficial outward resemblance, but that is all. They are conflated because people who have never experienced it try to slot it into what they know, so they decide that depression is just the sadness they know, but stronger. It's not.

But no, I'm sure that saying depressed people are just sad and have control over their own feelings and that Prozac is no better than a lobotomy is going to totally help people.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#183

Post by floody-berry »

ceejayoz wrote: post #54
BlackDeath3 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So thoughts, feelings, and behaviors are outside of biology? How does that work? I realize that you are simply quoting a passage and not necessarily personally espousing what you wrote.

Just a note, I'm quoting that passage because I (and scientific evidence) disagree with it. Thoughts, feelings, behaviours, and mental illness most certainly have biological bases, which makes Szalz's theories pretty loony.

Szasz entire screed appears to be based on mental illnesses not being able to be concretely diagnosed or detected, but then jumping to the conclusion that they are completely made up and abused by society to control everyone's behavior.

Once you "accept" his conclusion, it doesn't seem possible to be argued out of it until science advances to an arbitrary point where one feels it adequately explains mental illnesses. "accept" in quotations as I honestly can't tell if his supporters are trolling or honestly believe what they're posting.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#184

Post by PhasmaFelis »

xenophanes wrote: post #169
benatkin wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the person behind Xenophanes consider each of their online identities to be a "person"? Nice dodge with that choice of word. It's easier to claim that a fake online identity is a person than it is to claim that a fake online identity is a human. > Want a discussion where you won't be punished if you say "What You Can't Say"[0], as xenophanes dared do today? I smell astroturf.

Justin and Alan are not me.

Glad to hear it.

Since you are apparently not, as JustinCEO claimed, hellbanned, I'll remind you that I'm still waiting on those citations. You demanded them from everyone else, it's only fair that you should provide your own.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#185

Post by PhasmaFelis »

joesmo wrote: post #174
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's part of the problem, the idea that you need a formal background to help a depressed person at all, and that the rest of us should go hands-off and pretend it isn't happening. Sometimes just knowing that someone cares can help. It's not universal, it's not a cure, but it is something.

Couldn't agree more. Not only is it part of the problem, the so called mental health "professionals" are hardly qualified to help themselves. For all their education, they're no better than anyone else at preventing tragedy or helping others. The only thing they are better at is fooling people into thinking that they are professionals at all. This is a sad story, but as it states at the beginning, Stephen tried to ca…

Uh, no. That's not what I said at all, and it's not true.

A dear friend of mine is still alive right now because her psychiatrist hammered into her that she needed a list of people to call when she felt suicidal. When the crisis came, she was just barely able to remember to call me before she reached for the knife, and my phone was charged and in my pocket because she'd told me about the psychiatrist's advice and I'd promised her I'd be available 24/7. I'm a pretty forgetful guy, but I forced myself into rigorous phone-care habits because of that psychiatrist, and that's the only reason that she didn't slit her wrists and bleed out on the carpet that night.

With severe depression, your best chance of a positive outcome comes with a solid support network and a well-trained, reliable psych professional. You need both.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#186

Post by gruseom »

mikeash wrote: post #182
dreamdu5t wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I think psychology has medicalized a range of normal emotions and behaviors, like sadness and anger for example, and that there is not necessarily any such disease as depression. I know that's not PC and some may find that shocking, but it's pretty plausible when you look at the history of psychology. Since I've already crossed the PC/shocking line... It's amazing the similarities between SSRI's and lobotomy. The…

I'm not shocked. It's a sadly common opinion. I do think you're full of shit, though. Depression is completely different from things like sadness and anger. There is a superficial outward resemblance, but that is all. They are conflated because people who have never experienced it try to slot it into what they know, so they decide that depression is just the sadness they know, but stronger. It's not. But no, I'm sure…

have control over their own feelings and that Prozac is no better than a lobotomy

dreamdu5t said neither of those things, and there's no need to be rude.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#187

Post by wiredfool »

EMRo wrote: post #141
hawkharris wrote: post #139

This story about your brother's struggle was moving...I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Mental health-related causes are personal to me as well. I think you touched on one of the biggest issues: the stereotype that people with mental health problems appear different and have a lower social status. As your story illustrates, the conditions affect all sorts of people, including those who are smart, successful and care…

"Many people fail to recognize the severity of psychological problems because they're too busy looking at superficial measures of well being: a person's career, his or her physical appearance, etc. But depression has made some of us feel as if we're in a deep fog or a war zone, even if, on the surface, we live in nice neighborhoods and succeed in the workplace." THIS. Being vocal about the struggle is so crucial. My…

I'm sorry for your loss.

We lost my sister to depression about 6 years ago. Superficially, life was fine -- good career, no money issues, good friends. But she was carrying baggage around from years earlier, when she was overworked and overloaded in grad school. (In a lab notorious for overwork, and unfortunately, suicide.) She was told she was depressed then, but no one really got the scope of it. I don't know why she wasn't getting treatment years later, other than things seemed to be going alright.

There were a couple of things, that later, seem to be really key. Had we known, or understood, I think things might have been different.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#188

Post by pserwylo »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #185
joesmo wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. Not only is it part of the problem, the so called mental health "professionals" are hardly qualified to help themselves. For all their education, they're no better than anyone else at preventing tragedy or helping others. The only thing they are better at is fooling people into thinking that they are professionals at all. This is a sad story, but as it states at the beginning, Stephen tried to ca…

Uh, no. That's not what I said at all, and it's not true. A dear friend of mine is still alive right now because her psychiatrist hammered into her that she needed a list of people to call when she felt suicidal. When the crisis came, she was just barely able to remember to call me before she reached for the knife, and my phone was charged and in my pocket because she'd told me about the psychiatrist's advice and I'd…

I'm not sure why you've been down voted. I didn't intend for my post to say that talking to friends or colleagues is a replacement for professional help, just that any extra help is a positive, especially when people might have a tendency to feel isolated.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#189

Post by grahamburger »

mikeash wrote: post #159
camus2 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother committed suicide. He died for nothing,and nobody in the family even knows why he died. 10 years later, I feel like I dont care he died anymore, I just cant feel sorry for people committing suicide, it accomplishes nothing,except destroying a family ,making relatives feel guilty all their life. Suicide is the most selfish thing one can do, that's my opinion.

Would you be saying that if he died of cancer instead of mental illness? People have this bizarre idea that mental illness somehow doesn't "count". That you have to fight it, and that if you lose, it's your own fault. You are, right here, blaming the victim of the disease. Your brother died from a mental illness. It killed him, just as surely as cancer or a heart attack might have killed him. You'd never, ever, ever…

Actually I might say about someone who had a heart attack or cancer. A father whose doctor and family begged him to change his diet and exercise habits for years before his fatal heart attack, or a mother who continued smoking even after the cancer set in, for example. Yes, mental illness is very much like any other illness, and like any other illness it can often be prevented and managed through lifestyle changes under a doctor's direction. I'm with GP - with a few rare exceptions suicide is a purely selfish and preventable act.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#190

Post by scrrr »

This was well written. It also sounds like suicide and I can't imagine how one must feel to do such a thing. But it reminds me that despite all cool toys and great achievements, what really matters in this life is others we can talk to and rely on. And this shouldn't only include friends and family but society as a whole.
Post reply on HN