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Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

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Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#111

Post by mailshanx »

EMRo wrote: post #26
Mz wrote: post #24

I get the impression that this is a long, polite way of saying Steve committed suicide. The last time I was on HN and the topic of suicide came up, I wrote kind of a ranty piece that I am not up to editing it (to remove the rantiness) and reposting. The short version: If you know someone who is suicidal and you care about them, spend time with them. In person. Suicide is almost always committed when one is alone. My…

He did. Thank you for sharing your story. I wish I had been there for him when he needed me like your sons can be there for you.

My deepest condolences. Hearing about your brother makes me very sad.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#112

Post by mynameishere »

gruseom wrote: post #50
xenophanes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your credentials consist of personal anecdotes? Maybe it's time to start taking the issue more seriously. I think it's a serious issue deserving a more serious approach. For example, you might try reading literature with multiple different perspectives on the issue. Then try to figure out which ideas are right and why. (If you've already done this, forgive me, and please please inform me why Szasz is mistaken, I w…

I like Szasz too, as well as his hippie counterpart R.D. Laing (whom you might check out if you're interested), but please, don't play intellectual hardball in this thread. The OP just lost his brother.

How is he playing hardball? He's being dickish crank. BTW, dickish crank, your hour-old xenophanes2 account seems to have already been hell-banned.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#113

Post by PhasmaFelis »

l33tbro wrote: post #104
pserwylo wrote: post #93

There is an organisation called BlueHackers.org [0] which was started at the Open Source Developers Conference. It has a strong presence at linux.conf.au as well. The organisation started from a very brief lightning talk that went something along the lines of (me paraphrasing from memory): "Who here in this room has experienced depression?" (for which the person asking the question put their hand up. After a few seco…

Cool sentiment, but what makes you think other "hackers" have the formal background to reach out and to a depressed person? If i was depressed, the last person I'd want to talk to about it are my hacker friends. The vast majority of the population simply have no idea how to talk to mentally ill people.

Well, that's part of the problem, the idea that you need a formal background to help a depressed person at all, and that the rest of us should go hands-off and pretend it isn't happening. Sometimes just knowing that someone cares can help. It's not universal, it's not a cure, but it is something.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#114

Post by ScottBurson »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #64

Thank you for starting a conversation about this. I know it's difficult, but it's important for the health and wellbeing of many other people struggling with the same problems that there are conversations like this one. I've struggled with depression too, though never been suicidal. Both of my parents made multiple suicide attempts last year. I hope you don't blame yourself for not being there for your brother. You c…

> Both of my parents made multiple suicide attempts last year.

Wow. My heart goes out to you. Hang in there.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#115

Post by einhverfr »

Mz wrote: post #24

I get the impression that this is a long, polite way of saying Steve committed suicide. The last time I was on HN and the topic of suicide came up, I wrote kind of a ranty piece that I am not up to editing it (to remove the rantiness) and reposting. The short version: If you know someone who is suicidal and you care about them, spend time with them. In person. Suicide is almost always committed when one is alone. My…

Something occurs to me when reading what you wrote here. I have heard folks who have struggled with depression (and not just suicidal depression) talk a lot about how important in person time was to recovering generally. I wonder how much depression is a social as opposed to a purely mental/neurological illness.

We humans need social contact and this has been known since at least the time of Aristotle (and probably time immemorial).

Perhaps you could answer this question: when your adult sons come over and care for you (this is a really great thing btw, and something we have lost as a society), is that in itself theraputic? Or is it just a stop-gap?

If it is theraputic, then we are missing a key piece of the discussion in the discourse of mental health.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#116

Post by PhasmaFelis »

xenophanes wrote: post #16

> he did all the things he was supposed to do to get help in a moment of crisis - made multiple calls to his care providers, to 911 and even went to the hospital. He had been experiencing symptoms for several years but was in a highly-respected treatment program that was working intimately with him. So in other words, conventional psychiatry failed. And the author's solution seems to be to spread it more. Maybe after…

It sure is interesting that your two primary supporters in this discussion (JustinCEO and aforrester) were created more than a year ago but haven't posted anything on HN until today, when they showed up to support you.

No, wait, aforrester made one post on the day it was created, supporting your position in a totally different discussion of suicide. My mistake.

Still waiting for that evidence I asked for, by the way.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#117

Post by dodyg »

I am sorry for your loss.

My friend committed suicide in a very public way almost three years ago. She was at that the time just completed her master degree, got a high paying job, recently married and fund-raised thousands of dollars for charity. She was pretty much in the traditional 'well on her way' trajectory that many people are dreaming of.

Suicide is hard to understand.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#118

Post by einhverfr »

doktrin wrote: post #84
scott_s wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did Mz say that you are objecting to? Everything she said aligns with what I have read and heard about suicide.

If I understand the parent correctly, he agrees with a certain Thomas Szasz' [1] opinions on psychiatry. Central among his opinions is the assertion that mental illness is a "myth" due to the lack of observable changes at the cellular level (or at autopsy), and that mental illness patients are "malingerers". My opinion : the dude sounds like an ass and his opinions are eye-rolling. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th…

Mental illness is a really tough thing to discuss in an objective way. See the debates about the DSM-5. I personally think mental health and mental illness are socially constructed.

This being said, the experiences relating to mental illness are very real. The larger question is how we make sense of them as a society. For something like depression how much of the illness is cognitive? How much is biological? How much is social? Somehow that last question never gets asked.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#119

Post by [deleted] »

xenophanes wrote: post #25
trvd1707 wrote: post #20

I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my son to suicide in 2009. He was brilliant, very sociable, very mature and he too struggled with mental illness. Today I know a lot more about the subject and I'm trying to help preventing more suicides from happening and mental health from being poorly diagnosed and treated. Right now I'm working on a project to develop apps for smart devices that can help people at risk of suicide.…

Have you read Szasz? Have you refuted his arguments? If you have not considered arguments which say what you're doing is actively bad, but you're going ahead anyway, isn't that irresponsible? If you have considered them, could you tell or link me the answer?

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#120

Post by Mz »

einhverfr wrote: post #118
doktrin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand the parent correctly, he agrees with a certain Thomas Szasz' [1] opinions on psychiatry. Central among his opinions is the assertion that mental illness is a "myth" due to the lack of observable changes at the cellular level (or at autopsy), and that mental illness patients are "malingerers". My opinion : the dude sounds like an ass and his opinions are eye-rolling. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th…

Mental illness is a really tough thing to discuss in an objective way. See the debates about the DSM-5. I personally think mental health and mental illness are socially constructed. This being said, the experiences relating to mental illness are very real. The larger question is how we make sense of them as a society. For something like depression how much of the illness is cognitive? How much is biological? How much…

That last is very hard to ask because the vast majority of people are raised with either a guilt or shame model, thus asking it comes across as finger pointing.

Anyway, I need to go so cannot elaborate.

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