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Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

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Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#31

Post by xenophanes »

md224 wrote: post #27
xenophanes wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could he possibly have been, "in a highly-respected treatment program", or labelled mentally ill, if he acted completely normal and suffered in silence?

The parent comment was merely questioning the validity of your weird assertion that "People are labelled mentally ill IFF they do things that have a stigma attached". Perhaps you meant "people who do not self-identify as mentally ill but have that designation imposed on them." Maybe you'd have a case there. But the fact remains that many people suffer from mental illness, and it isn't always just a case of society re…

You're informing me of a "fact" without a citation. You have not succeeded at persuading me.

If you wish to change my mind, tell me where Szasz was mistaken. If you are not familiar with Szasz, perhaps you should try reading both sides of the issue before passing judgment.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#34

Post by xenophanes »

EMRo wrote: post #30
xenophanes wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could he possibly have been, "in a highly-respected treatment program", or labelled mentally ill, if he acted completely normal and suffered in silence?

He was what doctors call 'high functioning.' He was able to operate in society and shroud his pain though it was incredibly painful to do so for him. He wasn't 'completely normal'. He was in a very well respected program in Boston and working through his issues to have the life he wanted.

What's your point?

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#35

Post by ceejayoz »

xenophanes wrote: post #16

> he did all the things he was supposed to do to get help in a moment of crisis - made multiple calls to his care providers, to 911 and even went to the hospital. He had been experiencing symptoms for several years but was in a highly-respected treatment program that was working intimately with him. So in other words, conventional psychiatry failed. And the author's solution seems to be to spread it more. Maybe after…

Szasz thinks mental illness has no biological basis, which flies in the face of the empirical fact that twin/adoption studies have shown a clear hereditary basis for a variety of conditions like bipolar, schizophrenia, etc.

Arguing that someone dying despite psychiatry invalidates psychiatry is like arguing cancer treatment is useless because some people die of cancer.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#36

Post by dchuk »

xenophanes wrote: post #16

> he did all the things he was supposed to do to get help in a moment of crisis - made multiple calls to his care providers, to 911 and even went to the hospital. He had been experiencing symptoms for several years but was in a highly-respected treatment program that was working intimately with him. So in other words, conventional psychiatry failed. And the author's solution seems to be to spread it more. Maybe after…

Per your logic, we should abandon heart transplant surgeries as soon as one doesn't go as planned.

Anecdotal evidence against the efficacy of any medical treatment is not reason enough to abandon it.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#37

Post by sliverstorm »

seancoleman wrote: post #19
xenophanes wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We must break the stigma against mental illness How? People are labelled mentally ill IFF they do things that have a stigma attached.

I don't believe that's true. There are plenty of mentally ill people (depression, anxiety, bi-polar) that act completely normal like Stephen. They often suffer in silence.

There isn't really a stigma on anxiety disorder or being bipolar, that I know of. There is a stigma on some of the things people with those disorders sometimes do, but that seems reasonable.

If you're bipolar and I don't like you, it's probably because of manic-depressive behavior. Not because I heard you say you were bipolar. It's not a stigma, I just can't handle people with wild mood swings.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#39

Post by xenophanes »

ceejayoz wrote: post #35
xenophanes wrote: post #16

> he did all the things he was supposed to do to get help in a moment of crisis - made multiple calls to his care providers, to 911 and even went to the hospital. He had been experiencing symptoms for several years but was in a highly-respected treatment program that was working intimately with him. So in other words, conventional psychiatry failed. And the author's solution seems to be to spread it more. Maybe after…

Szasz thinks mental illness has no biological basis, which flies in the face of the empirical fact that twin/adoption studies have shown a clear hereditary basis for a variety of conditions like bipolar, schizophrenia, etc. Arguing that someone dying despite psychiatry invalidates psychiatry is like arguing cancer treatment is useless because some people die of cancer.

Do you want to discuss this seriously? If so, cite an actual study and say specifically what conclusion it reaches and specifically how that contradicts Szasz.

You seem to be implying that Szasz and I hold our positions due to scientific ignorance, which is demonstrably false, and insulting. But maybe you didn't mean it that way.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#40

Post by ceejayoz »

xenophanes wrote: post #21
notastartup wrote: post #11

I would start out by saying there's a stigma around mental illness and that it's not a "real" illness and that it's "all in the head therefore not real". It is exactly this type of attitude we have had since the dark ages that much development of treatment and studies are now only beginning to take more shape. We have to have a much wider awareness of mental illness and how it affects the basic human rights.

How does it affect basic human rights, exactly? Some examples: People labelled mentally ill can be imprisoned without a trial. People labelled mentally ill can avoid prison when another person who did the same actions would go to jail. People labelled mentally ill can be drugged by force. This is bad for basic human rights, isn't it?

> People labelled mentally ill can be imprisoned without a trial.

So can people not labelled mentally ill, and involuntary confinement happens well within the confines of our legal and justice systems.

> People labelled mentally ill can avoid prison when another person who did the same actions would go to jail.

People found not guilty by reason of insanity are typically kept in a forensic unit with similar levels of freedom as a prison, and typically are detained longer. It's not as if they're turned loose.

> People labelled mentally ill can be drugged by force.

So can people not labelled mentally ill.

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