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Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

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Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#11

Post by baddox »

jdreaver wrote: post #3

Take a look at the comments section if you want to see political tribalism at its best. > I thought Bush orchestrated the Patriot Act... who knew..? > Regardless of your opinion of the surveillance, you gotta see this as a cynical political move. Bet he wouldn't sue a Republican president. Isn't good enough to disagree with Obama - a candidate has to demonstrate outrage with him to gain cred with the base. Everything…

Are either of those actually examples of political tribalism? The first seems to be mocking the ignorance of many partisans, while the second seems to be attributing political tribalism to Rand Paul. Neither commenter seems to be exhibiting political tribalism.

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#13

Post by waterlesscloud »

saalweachter wrote: post #7

My two minutes of internet research says that this is going to get tossed. A President can't be sued for actions taken as President, but can be sued for personal actions. A Daily Beast article mentions this: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/30/can-bachman...

This happens all the time.

Google "v. "

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#14

Post by baddox »

troym wrote: post #5
frodopwns wrote: post #4

More political theater from Rand Paul. If only he was as transparent to the average voter.

Would a similar suit by Pelosi also be theater to you?

No. Any actions or statements by politicians I like are legitimate and well-intended, while any actions or statements by politicians I dislike are nothing more than political theater.

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#15

Post by kaonashi »

paul_f wrote: post #6
troym wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would a similar suit by Pelosi also be theater to you?

Of course not. This is the problem with modern politics in a nutshell.

People making false equivalency arguments on internet message boards?

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#16

Post by diminoten »

jdreaver wrote: post #3

Take a look at the comments section if you want to see political tribalism at its best. > I thought Bush orchestrated the Patriot Act... who knew..? > Regardless of your opinion of the surveillance, you gotta see this as a cynical political move. Bet he wouldn't sue a Republican president. Isn't good enough to disagree with Obama - a candidate has to demonstrate outrage with him to gain cred with the base. Everything…

This is right vs. left. He wouldn't have done this to a Republican president, do you think he, Rand Paul, would have? Do you know much about Rand Paul? The man's entire political career is based on acting the partisan part.

Like it or not, everything literally is partisan politics. No issue in the US rises above partisanship. That's the system we live in, you'll just have to accept that or attempt to change it directly.

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#17

Post by dmix »

jdreaver wrote: post #3

Take a look at the comments section if you want to see political tribalism at its best. > I thought Bush orchestrated the Patriot Act... who knew..? > Regardless of your opinion of the surveillance, you gotta see this as a cynical political move. Bet he wouldn't sue a Republican president. Isn't good enough to disagree with Obama - a candidate has to demonstrate outrage with him to gain cred with the base. Everything…

Both parties are slowly merging into one anyway: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/us/politics/boehner-to-...

The only notable difference these days is the fringes (where Rand Paul and Tea Party reside) vs the single party.

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#18

Post by zhemao »

higherpurpose wrote: post #8

Good stuff, but it kind of bothers me that so much focus is put on the phone surveillance program, when I find the surveillance of private Internet communications so much more damaging, especially since they are also the future of all communications.

I'm not certain because I'm definitely not a legal expert, but I think this might be because there is more legal precedent that warrant-less phone monitoring is illegal compared to warrant-less IP traffic monitoring. Would anyone with a better understanding of surveillance law care to comment?

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#19

Post by wutbrodo »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #9

Why is the lawsuit against Obama? Shouldn't it be against the USG or the part of the government that passed the law (or against the NSA for the data collection)? It seems strange to sue an individual politician, president or not.

IANAL, but my assumption was that Paul the suit has no chance of success from a legal perspective, leaving only the PR angle. From the PR angle, "Rand Paul sues Obama" gets a hell of a lot more attention than "Rand Paul sues such-and-such agency".

Re: Obama Sued by Rand Paul Over Phone Surveillance Program

#20

Post by jdreaver »

diminoten wrote: post #16
jdreaver wrote: post #3

Take a look at the comments section if you want to see political tribalism at its best. > I thought Bush orchestrated the Patriot Act... who knew..? > Regardless of your opinion of the surveillance, you gotta see this as a cynical political move. Bet he wouldn't sue a Republican president. Isn't good enough to disagree with Obama - a candidate has to demonstrate outrage with him to gain cred with the base. Everything…

This is right vs. left. He wouldn't have done this to a Republican president, do you think he, Rand Paul, would have? Do you know much about Rand Paul? The man's entire political career is based on acting the partisan part. Like it or not, everything literally is partisan politics. No issue in the US rises above partisanship. That's the system we live in, you'll just have to accept that or attempt to change it direct…

I know it is right vs left, and I don't care. Being a pawn in the right vs left debate is a waste of time. I care about the actual effects of this suit.

> Like it or not, everything literally is partisan politics. No issue in the US rises above partisanship. That's the system we live in, you'll just have to accept that or attempt to change it directly.

Are you kidding me? There is so much to life besides partisan politics. Deciding not to care about partisan politics is one of the best decisions of my life.

It is indeed possible to change the world without using the government and partisan politics. Trying to steer the current political system to do your bidding is a waste of time unless you have a tremendous amount of resources and willpower. For the average citizen, the only winning move is not to play.

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