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Is the shared economy racist?

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Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#131

Post by vdaniuk »

pessimizer wrote: post #112
vdaniuk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are exaggerating to some point and I am happy to provide some facts and scientific theory. I will address only one part of your argument. You argue that segregation in Detroit means people are more racist and only government regulation keeps them in check. However, Thomas Schelling, an authoritative economist with published papers in peer-reviewed journals coined a model of segregation, that was named after him.…

>a preference that one's neighbors be of the same color, or even a preference for a mixture "up to some limit" A common term for that is racism. Are you saying that segregation can spring from racism? I'm not sure that anyone was confused about that.

Literally the next line is qualifying and clarifying the previous statement:

"That means that segregation may occur even with communities that consist mostly of non-racist individuals or individual with very low level of racism."

I'm not sure that anyone could be confused about that if they aren't emotionally invested in the discussion. And I am not interested in debating things on emotional grounds.

If you reallywant more information on Shelling segregation model, it can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFl3Cfw12bo. This is a 10 minute lecture from Coursera mooc.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#132

Post by tw268 »

theorique wrote: post #122
afterburner wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I suppose one always want to skew towards the richer in these cases, and race happens to be a commonly held indicator of wealth or lack thereof. It's two ugly things mixing together.

There exists a win-win equilibrium for upper class people. It's an advantage for wealthy, educated blacks to live in mostly white neighborhoods, because it shows that they've "made it" according to the (admittedly racist) standards of success. And it's an advantage for the white majority in such a neighborhood to have a few blacks around to demonstrate how incredibly non-racist they are. (Obviously, the underclass (o…

I don't get the romanticization of the under class. In poor neighborhoods, there are lots of noise, litter, and crime and few good role models. Why would you want that in your neighborhood? To prove how open-minded you are?

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#133

Post by cwaniak »

tw268 wrote: post #120
cwaniak wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, because if media portrayed Asians as living in slums, not working and dealing drugs, the public would just buy it in a second.

Have you never looked at the FBI crime statistics by race? Asians commit almost zero crime in America, and they earn more money on average than whites. Maybe stereotypes exist because they reflect data?

So Asians are smarter and less crime-prone on average than Whites. I don't understand why you are picking on me, I'm not the one here who has a problem with facts.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#134

Post by trysomething »

What we are seeing here brings to light an inconvenient truth: you simply cannot legislate away obnoxious social behavior. As long as I remember, Craigslist has prohibited discriminatory advertising to ensure listings comply with the fair housing act. Does this really stop a prejudiced landlord? When it gets down to the level of individuals dealing consensually with individuals, there isn't much that the state can do (unless it's a tyrannical state).

Black comedians have always joked about being passed over by cabs, well before Uber, Lyft etc. In the long run, I think these services actually improve things .. On the curb, all a racist cab driver sees is how someone looks .. but now everyone can develop a reputation that goes well beyond appearances. In addition, by taking care of payment, prejudiced drivers don't have to worry that some groups are less likely to pay at the end of the ride. Eventually, they will realize that the color of one's skin is a terrible predictor of character and (hopefully) become less racist.

So, the "sharing economy" is not itself racist, but due to its peer to peer nature it exposes the lingering prejudices in our Society. But, since prejudice requires a lack of reason or evidence, the sharing economy also provides a way forward. Through AirBnB, for example, we can not only see what someone looks like, but we get information about the content of their character. Granted, it's not perfect (nothing ever will be), but it's a start.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#135

Post by justin66 »

richardjordan wrote: post #126
justin66 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you do get a lot in Europe is a lot of discomfort with the muslim minorities - whether white, or of color - which is often falsely equated with racism (because racists are often also Islamophobic too). Europe has had at least one genocide over the issue recently. That's a bit more than "discomfort."

If you're referring to the conflict in the former Yugoslavia, a conflict I was actually present for the start of interestingly, then that's a whole different issue and far more complicated.

Wow, I'm glad you explained that. You've defended your point splendidly. Superficially, the continent that had a genocide against one of its ethnic minorities would appear to be more racist and xenophobic. But if it's complicated, well, that changes everything.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#136

Post by omonra »

natrius wrote: post #127
omonra wrote: post #99

I think the headline is a bit misleading. Racist would mean that hosts don't want to rent their apartment to people of other races (ie whites only wanting to rent to other whites). Here it seems that hosts are making a judgement call about the renter and using race as a parameter. They appear to have no problem renting to Asians or Indians, just have an issue with one particular ethnicity. Wouldn't a more accurate he…

No one limits their usage of "racist" to the scenario you described, so that's not what it means. Your situation is racial supremacy, which is a special kind of racist.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racist

That is what it means, at least according to the dictionary.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#137

Post by mhurron »

potatolicious wrote: post #98
mhurron wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think Americans are much less racist than almost anyone else. I'm Bengali by ethnicity, and my observation is that people on the subcontinent are racist enough to make a south Georgia redneck blush. Not really, it's just in the rest of the world being openly racist is just fine, in the US (and Canada) you have to pick when you can be openly racist and pretend otherwise the rest of the time. > think we'd still hav…

A bit uncharitable. As a minority myself I do think Americans are a lot less racist than almost anyone else, by virtue of the fact that they're aware it exists . Call it white guilt if you must (though it's really a misnomer), but the fact that Americans are aware of their own racism makes the situation much, much more tolerable than in other places. Sure, covert racism is still a problem (a big one at that), but at…

Again, it depends on who they're talking to. My father-in-law won't talk much to the black propane truck driver when they deliver, he'll be out there making sure he got all he's charged for, but will complain endlessly about the nigger in the white house when it's the white driver. If you're white he'll tell you straight out that black people are incapable of advanced (like math) thought like a good white person, that's why they're all lazy and poor. He'll also tell you he's not racist.

Because you're white, he assumes you agree with him. In a lot of the US, 'thank god you're not dating a black girl' will only cause discomfort if they think they're in mixed company, not because they think it's wrong. Once the person who they don't know about leaves, so does any discomfort about saying what they really mean.

He doesn't say that shit to me anymore not because it's wrong, but because he's figured out I don't agree with him and look at him like the idiot he is.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#138

Post by aetherson »

rayiner wrote: post #7

There's a really simple explanatory mechanism, which is that even if an AirBnB host is bound by the same anti-discrimination provisions of the Civil Rights Act as a Hyatt, which is probably true, holding individual service providers accountable at that level is basically impossible. And to the extent that the "sharing economy" involves more individuals rather than businesses that can be sued, you will see more discri…

I wonder if you could reasonably sue someone in small claims court for racial discrimination. I've never heard of such a case, but it seems like it's more or less what we're looking for -- a way to bring suit for a penalty that's meaningful in amount to an AirBnB host, without you having to invest tens of thousands of dollars into a sprawling lawsuit.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#139

Post by gojomo »

I can believe racism was a factor.

However, there's also a bias against new guests (with no history).

And, there seems to have been a big increase in the percentage of marginal listings that are not-really-available. (Perhaps, far more people are casually listing places without real intent to rent or diligence in checking requests and updating calendar availability. Or perhaps with higher usage, those are the only kinds of listings that are left in the last few days.)

My experience: the first few times I used AirBnb, even as a last-minute booking, availability was accurate, most hosts got back to me right away, booking was quick and easy.

The last few times I've used AirBnb, in New York, Berlin, and Portland, I've had a positive feedback history and there are more listings showing as available than ever. But, many hosts take over a day to respond if at all, and often then tell me the spot isn't available. I've had to send ~10+ inquiries, instead of ~2, to achieve one booking. So a few 'sorrys' in a row, on a booking a few days in advance, doesn't seem that suspicious.

Because the host gets to perform a 'social/internet x-ray' on a prospective guest, you always wonder if the real reason for the 'sorry' is that you're just not to their liking: by race, gender, age, coolness, politics, career, whatever. You never know for sure. That's both a strength and weakness of the AirBnb system: people can meet and host others they're most comfortable or interested in... or express longstanding and unfair prejudicies.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#140

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

thenmar wrote: post #16
dublinben wrote: post #3

This is pretty clearly an example of individual people being racist, not companies. Traditional taxi drivers are notoriously racist, I'm not surprised their app-summoned alternatives are any different.

Did you read the article? That's exactly what the author says. It's a short article, you can probably read it in 2 or 3 minutes...

Whenever there's an article about racism or sexism it's very important to jump in and start posting your opinions without reading any more than the headline.
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