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Is the shared economy racist?

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Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#101

Post by vishaldpatel »

omonra wrote: post #99

I think the headline is a bit misleading. Racist would mean that hosts don't want to rent their apartment to people of other races (ie whites only wanting to rent to other whites). Here it seems that hosts are making a judgement call about the renter and using race as a parameter. They appear to have no problem renting to Asians or Indians, just have an issue with one particular ethnicity. Wouldn't a more accurate he…

Racial discrimination is when someone is discriminated on the basis of their race. It doesn't matter how friendly the perpetrator is to people of other races.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#102

Post by pessimizer »

Jun8 wrote: post #81
greendata wrote: post #25

This is so depressing and even though sample size is small it rings 100% true. I think it's just a symptom of an inherently racist and unfair world and is not Uber or Airbnb's fault. The same thing happens with names at the resume level and on and on. That said I think there's a new market here. If the average Airbnb listing is rejecting applicants of color maybe there could be a special "diversity friendly" designat…

"...even though sample size is small it rings 100% true" I just want to point attention to the (perhaps ironic) fact this sort of reasoning is exactly the same one used by the (allegedly) racist hosts and drivers in the story, i.e. people are much more prone to accept what they are told (mostly in sample size = 1 cases or anecdotal generalizations) if it aligns well with their beliefs (e.g. "another BnB host told me…

It should be easy to grow the sample size. Do you know any black people, and have they used AirBnB or Uber?

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#103

Post by mikeklaas »

omonra wrote: post #99

I think the headline is a bit misleading. Racist would mean that hosts don't want to rent their apartment to people of other races (ie whites only wanting to rent to other whites). Here it seems that hosts are making a judgement call about the renter and using race as a parameter. They appear to have no problem renting to Asians or Indians, just have an issue with one particular ethnicity. Wouldn't a more accurate he…

You don't have to be equally racist against all ethnicities to be called racist.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#104

Post by rayiner »

richardjordan wrote: post #82
ggchappell wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> racism, something that's blatant all over America (some might say, it's what defines America) A number of replies on this, but some have, I think, understated the issue. In all honestly, I would say the U.S. is just about the least racist country on earth. If racism is not seen to be a problem elsewhere, then it's largely because of ethnic homogeneity, not lack of racism. EDIT: It looks like I'm being misinterprete…

How can anyone possibly believe this? Not just attacking you but genuinely I find this incomprehensible. America is a deeply racist society. It's built on the genocide of the Native Americans who are still largely kept in poverty in virtual prison camps we insultingly call reservations, by racist policies. The legacy of racism against African Americans is still deep and real - have you any experience as a black perso…

> How can anyone possibly believe this?

I don't know much about Europe, but as I look at the conflicts bubbling up in the U.K. and France over Arab immigration, I am inclined to believe the lower prevalence of racism there is more a function of less racial friction in more homogenous societies than actually lower levels of racism in the culture. As far as historical racism, I don't know if we want to compare scorecards with the continent that invented colonization and the African slave trade...

That said, my point of comparison is Asia, specifically the subcontinent. I'm ethnically Bengali (first generation immigrant), and my wife is Oregonian (her family moved there in the wagon trails), of English/Dutch ancestry. If our situations were reversed, there is no way Bengali society would have accepted my wife in the way American society has accepted me. She could move there and live there for the rest of her life and she'd always be "bideshi" (foreigner).

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#105

Post by omonra »

vishaldpatel wrote: post #101
omonra wrote: post #99

I think the headline is a bit misleading. Racist would mean that hosts don't want to rent their apartment to people of other races (ie whites only wanting to rent to other whites). Here it seems that hosts are making a judgement call about the renter and using race as a parameter. They appear to have no problem renting to Asians or Indians, just have an issue with one particular ethnicity. Wouldn't a more accurate he…

Racial discrimination is when someone is discriminated on the basis of their race. It doesn't matter how friendly the perpetrator is to people of other races.

Right - but you appreciate the difference between someone

a) disliking all races different from one's own b) using one's life experience to form opinions about people and grouping them by - age / race / occupation / ethnicity / etc.

I think that using same word is wrong - as they are completely different phenomena.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#106

Post by tw268 »

Jun8 wrote: post #81
greendata wrote: post #25

This is so depressing and even though sample size is small it rings 100% true. I think it's just a symptom of an inherently racist and unfair world and is not Uber or Airbnb's fault. The same thing happens with names at the resume level and on and on. That said I think there's a new market here. If the average Airbnb listing is rejecting applicants of color maybe there could be a special "diversity friendly" designat…

"...even though sample size is small it rings 100% true" I just want to point attention to the (perhaps ironic) fact this sort of reasoning is exactly the same one used by the (allegedly) racist hosts and drivers in the story, i.e. people are much more prone to accept what they are told (mostly in sample size = 1 cases or anecdotal generalizations) if it aligns well with their beliefs (e.g. "another BnB host told me…

What do you call a stereotype when it is backed by statistical data? The a priori belief that is most common is that no stereotypes are true. It's the polite thing to believe. But if you are of a certain analytical mindset, you can be argued out of it with enough data and anecdotal evidence from friends.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#107

Post by Jun8 »

jfc wrote: post #92
Jun8 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...even though sample size is small it rings 100% true" I just want to point attention to the (perhaps ironic) fact this sort of reasoning is exactly the same one used by the (allegedly) racist hosts and drivers in the story, i.e. people are much more prone to accept what they are told (mostly in sample size = 1 cases or anecdotal generalizations) if it aligns well with their beliefs (e.g. "another BnB host told me…

Speaking of irony... Doesn't Blink posit that a person's extensive experience in an area can lead them to a quick, gut reaction that is, in fact, correct, even before they are able to verify it? It seems that Andrew's friend probably has had a fair amount of experience with being mistreated due to his skin color. His reaction to being denied a room 3 out of 3 times was perhaps hyperbolic, but certainly applicable to…

Actually I meant Thinking Fast and Slow but somehow typed Blink, sorry about that.

There are two different kinds of generalization here, I think:

As you state, "Brandon" probably has had to endure many other forms of racist behavior, e.g. taxis not wanting to pick up black clients, so his generalization to the new domain Uber was perhaps justifiable, but how about generalizing to AirBnb. AirBnB host population may be very different than the general population "Brandon was used to deal with" (I don't have data to back this up, hence the "may be", but I think that is a very high probability hypothesis, esp. in SF) yet he was quick to generalize, although the refusals may have been due to other factors. In other words "Brandon" has reliable data from a different population that he is now attaching to a new population.

The OP and greendata, OTOH, are generalizing to various beliefs based on a single data point of "Brandon".

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#108

Post by zorpner »

jfc wrote: post #92
Jun8 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...even though sample size is small it rings 100% true" I just want to point attention to the (perhaps ironic) fact this sort of reasoning is exactly the same one used by the (allegedly) racist hosts and drivers in the story, i.e. people are much more prone to accept what they are told (mostly in sample size = 1 cases or anecdotal generalizations) if it aligns well with their beliefs (e.g. "another BnB host told me…

Speaking of irony... Doesn't Blink posit that a person's extensive experience in an area can lead them to a quick, gut reaction that is, in fact, correct, even before they are able to verify it? It seems that Andrew's friend probably has had a fair amount of experience with being mistreated due to his skin color. His reaction to being denied a room 3 out of 3 times was perhaps hyperbolic, but certainly applicable to…

Exactly correct. Additionally, his friend had previously stated that AirBnB didn't work for him, so this "small sample" we're looking at is just Andrew's experience with the issue at this point in time.

It's always disturbing to me how much commentary in threads of this type on HN is devoted to asserting that the individual who's actually experiencing the problem is misinterpreting it. I love data, but demands for data/citations in situations where the problem is experiential are too often used to dismiss people's real, upsetting experiences with privilege and prejudice.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#109

Post by interpares »

wyager wrote: post #89
interpares wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite right. Historical baggage and preconceptions make some things rather difficult in certain countries if you look a certain way. In your example, shaving would do the trick. In the well-documented and numerous examples of blacks being routinely harassed, arrested or killed for unfounded suspicions...?

That's not what's happening in the article at all. They're saying "Black people can't even drink Arizona tea", when in reality it was some guy drinking canned tea and knowingly trespassing so he could get arrested and cash in on the whole "Trayvon Martin had an Arizona tea" thing.

Step 1: Take issue with the sensational language of the original article, which is actually a collection of links to other news stories

Step 2: Take one news story from said article and offer your own made-up explanation that's even more sensational.

Ok then.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#110

Post by Jun8 »

tw268 wrote: post #106
Jun8 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...even though sample size is small it rings 100% true" I just want to point attention to the (perhaps ironic) fact this sort of reasoning is exactly the same one used by the (allegedly) racist hosts and drivers in the story, i.e. people are much more prone to accept what they are told (mostly in sample size = 1 cases or anecdotal generalizations) if it aligns well with their beliefs (e.g. "another BnB host told me…

What do you call a stereotype when it is backed by statistical data? The a priori belief that is most common is that no stereotypes are true. It's the polite thing to believe. But if you are of a certain analytical mindset, you can be argued out of it with enough data and anecdotal evidence from friends.

An oxymoron :-), i.e. stereotypes are by definition not backed by reliable data (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stereotype)
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