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Is the shared economy racist?

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Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#81

Post by Jun8 »

greendata wrote: post #25

This is so depressing and even though sample size is small it rings 100% true. I think it's just a symptom of an inherently racist and unfair world and is not Uber or Airbnb's fault. The same thing happens with names at the resume level and on and on. That said I think there's a new market here. If the average Airbnb listing is rejecting applicants of color maybe there could be a special "diversity friendly" designat…

"...even though sample size is small it rings 100% true"

I just want to point attention to the (perhaps ironic) fact this sort of reasoning is exactly the same one used by the (allegedly) racist hosts and drivers in the story, i.e. people are much more prone to accept what they are told (mostly in sample size = 1 cases or anecdotal generalizations) if it aligns well with their beliefs (e.g. "another BnB host told me a black guy thrashed his house", "we all know that girls can't code").

A (very) rough characterization of the process, I think, would be:

1. Creation: For this or that reason an a priori belief is formed, e.g. "world is inherently racist" or "blacks are much more probable to be criminals".

2. Filtering: The facts that are reported are filtered using a selection bias (usually, mostly subconsciously) so that facts that strongly agree with the belief are remembered more. (The fact that news items generally report on low-probability, high-standard deviation items, a la man biting the dog, makes this effect even stronger)

3. Update The belief is then updated by the facts with their relative weights determined in (2)

The above (well known and documented, e.g. Blink EDIT: Sorry, wrong reference, see below) process is not a bad thing! AFAIK, it's default brain operation. It takes quite a bit of control and patience to push back the default process at all thee levels.

Note that I'm not arguing that racism, etc. does not exist; however, before jumping to conclusions, like the OP and his/her friend did ("AirBnB doesn't work for black people"), we need to be a bit more careful.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#82

Post by richardjordan »

ggchappell wrote: post #71
joesmo wrote: post #12

I don't think any of this is specific to AirBnb or Uber. What is described here is just plain racism, something that's blatant all over America (some might say, it's what defines America), especially in regards towards black people. The black friend in the story knew this and wasn't surprised. It's only surprising to people who think this is something of the past, as if somehow people have improved and this shouldn't…

> racism, something that's blatant all over America (some might say, it's what defines America) A number of replies on this, but some have, I think, understated the issue. In all honestly, I would say the U.S. is just about the least racist country on earth. If racism is not seen to be a problem elsewhere, then it's largely because of ethnic homogeneity, not lack of racism. EDIT: It looks like I'm being misinterprete…

How can anyone possibly believe this? Not just attacking you but genuinely I find this incomprehensible.

America is a deeply racist society. It's built on the genocide of the Native Americans who are still largely kept in poverty in virtual prison camps we insultingly call reservations, by racist policies.

The legacy of racism against African Americans is still deep and real - have you any experience as a black person in the Southern states? If so then I'll respect your opinion on that topic, but as a White person who came to the US from a different country, and then lived in Texas for a few years, the levels of racism are disgraceful.

The entire hispanic ag-business-driven immigration problem hinges on institutionalized racism.

Then we don't even touch on disparities like over-concentration of poverty in minority communities, incarceration rates, under-representation in positions of power and seniority etc.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#83

Post by justin66 »

richardjordan wrote: post #79
wyager wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> plain racism, something that's blatant all over America (some might say, it's what defines America) Have you ever lived in any continental European country? As someone who has spent about half their life in northern and western Europe and the other half in America, I can tell you with 100% confidence that Europeans are, in general, more xenophobic and racist than Americans.

Having grown up in the UK, lived in many countries around the world, and now been in the US for 15 years I dispute that. To fight anecdote with anecdote... Moving from the UK to the US I was shocked by the pernicious levels of institutionalized racism and the undercurrent of subtle racism. It's everywhere. There's certainly more of a veneer of tolerance here, which covers up a deep seated pathological racism, which i…

> What you do get a lot in Europe is a lot of discomfort with the muslim minorities - whether white, or of color - which is often falsely equated with racism (because racists are often also Islamophobic too).

Europe has had at least one genocide over the issue recently. That's a bit more than "discomfort."

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#84

Post by afterburner »

theorique wrote: post #53
afterburner wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are also more racist than normal when their assets are on the line (aka paranoia).

There are financial consequences for getting this one wrong. Research shows that if a neighborhood is "becoming more black" or "becoming more white", that has implications for property valuation. (Yes, this comes from racism, in case you were wondering.) Who wants to be the guinea pig to wager the value of his house on diversity? (... and it's fine if you do , just be aware that it has implications)

Yes, I suppose one always want to skew towards the richer in these cases, and race happens to be a commonly held indicator of wealth or lack thereof. It's two ugly things mixing together.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#85

Post by interpares »

wyager wrote: post #40
interpares wrote: post #14

So unfortunate, and also a reflection of the wider national context. Maybe time to add a few more to this list of "21 Things Black People Can't Do in America": http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/02/21-things-you-cant...

Jesus, that article is so full of shit. It's literally a list of misleading headlines. Equivalent: "21 things white people can't do in Germany: Be the nation's leader while having a tootbrush mustache"

Quite right. Historical baggage and preconceptions make some things rather difficult in certain countries if you look a certain way. In your example, shaving would do the trick. In the well-documented and numerous examples of blacks being routinely harassed, arrested or killed for unfounded suspicions...?

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#86

Post by jack-r-abbit »

interpares wrote: post #85
wyager wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus, that article is so full of shit. It's literally a list of misleading headlines. Equivalent: "21 things white people can't do in Germany: Be the nation's leader while having a tootbrush mustache"

Quite right. Historical baggage and preconceptions make some things rather difficult in certain countries if you look a certain way. In your example, shaving would do the trick. In the well-documented and numerous examples of blacks being routinely harassed, arrested or killed for unfounded suspicions...?

Perhaps the "literally a list of misleading headlines" comment is because if one had the time and thought it would actually be considered, one could probably come up with misleading headlines and links to stories of white people suffering injustice for random things.

Like "Can't divorce an ex Pro Football player [link to story about OJ Simpson killing Nicole]"

Or "Can't drive truck down street [Link to story about Reginald Denny]

I know those are older stories but those are the ones that come to mind with little research.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#87

Post by ggchappell »

interpares wrote: post #77
ggchappell wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> racism, something that's blatant all over America (some might say, it's what defines America) A number of replies on this, but some have, I think, understated the issue. In all honestly, I would say the U.S. is just about the least racist country on earth. If racism is not seen to be a problem elsewhere, then it's largely because of ethnic homogeneity, not lack of racism. EDIT: It looks like I'm being misinterprete…

>In all honestly, I would say the U.S. is just about the least racist country on earth. Even given the institutional racism evident in things like incarceration rates and educational outcomes?

Yes.

To clarify, I'm not saying that racism is not a problem in the U.S. Certainly it is.

If other countries don't have huge number of minorities in prison, then it is because (1) they don't have huge numbers of minorities, or (2) they don't have a lot of people in prison.

But in the U.S. we have both the world's highest incarceration rate and an unusually ethnically diverse population. Add to that the racism that everyone has, and we get the kind of problems you mention.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#88

Post by richardjordan »

runarberg wrote: post #78

From my experience YES! Before I start, I'd like to note that I am a young white, non-handicapped male. Most of my participation in the shared economy comes from hitchhiking, and I've done a lot of it. Only once has a car stopped that had a black passenger in it. I don't think that black people are racist towards white hitchhikers, but I think there is a deep barrier of trust at issue. Black people do experience raci…

I think there's an alternative explanation to your anecdotal suggestion black drivers don't pick up white hitch-hikers. Picking up hitch-hikers is inherently risky. Given that in any altercation or conflict the establishment and authorities will pretty much always view the black participant with suspicion and the white participant with favor, as experienced on a regular basis in day-to-day life by said driver, I think caution in not putting themselves in such a situation is warranted.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#89

Post by wyager »

interpares wrote: post #85
wyager wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus, that article is so full of shit. It's literally a list of misleading headlines. Equivalent: "21 things white people can't do in Germany: Be the nation's leader while having a tootbrush mustache"

Quite right. Historical baggage and preconceptions make some things rather difficult in certain countries if you look a certain way. In your example, shaving would do the trick. In the well-documented and numerous examples of blacks being routinely harassed, arrested or killed for unfounded suspicions...?

That's not what's happening in the article at all. They're saying "Black people can't even drink Arizona tea", when in reality it was some guy drinking canned tea and knowingly trespassing so he could get arrested and cash in on the whole "Trayvon Martin had an Arizona tea" thing.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#90

Post by runarberg »

richardjordan wrote: post #88
runarberg wrote: post #78

From my experience YES! Before I start, I'd like to note that I am a young white, non-handicapped male. Most of my participation in the shared economy comes from hitchhiking, and I've done a lot of it. Only once has a car stopped that had a black passenger in it. I don't think that black people are racist towards white hitchhikers, but I think there is a deep barrier of trust at issue. Black people do experience raci…

I think there's an alternative explanation to your anecdotal suggestion black drivers don't pick up white hitch-hikers. Picking up hitch-hikers is inherently risky. Given that in any altercation or conflict the establishment and authorities will pretty much always view the black participant with suspicion and the white participant with favor, as experienced on a regular basis in day-to-day life by said driver, I thin…

I second that
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