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European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

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Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#31

Post by atmosx »

davidnu wrote: post #14
higherpurpose wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll put more and harsher regulations on American companies until they say yes. So I'm fine with whatever decision US makes, because I wouldn't mind if US companies (and the US government by proxy) wouldn't have a monopoly on EU users's data anymore.

You want governments to decide market winners and losers?! the fact that US companies are successful in Europe and Europeans are less so is partly due to the fact that they don't suffer from the backwards economic views you're currently displaying.

> the fact that US companies are successful in Europe and Europeans are less so is partly due to the fact that they don't suffer from the backwards economic views you're currently displaying.

That's kinda harsh, there might be other reasons too[1].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial_...

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#32

Post by juandopazo »

forgotAgain wrote: post #9

Like the governance in England where the government decides what you should be watching? Perhaps they'll uses the French model and make it illegal to say anything critical about the French government. Or perhaps they'll adopt the Turkish attitude of jail time for those who speak the truth (if Turkey gets into the EU). How are they better than the American model of Uncle Sam lurking in the background of everyone's liv…

From TFA:

'Kroes said: “Some are calling for the International Telecommunications Union to take control of key Internet functions. I agree that governments have a crucial role to play, but top-down approaches are not the right answer. We must strengthen the multi-stakeholder model to preserve the Internet as a fast engine for innovation.”'

And the concrete actions they propose have more to do with 'Establishment of a clear timeline for the globalisation of ICANN and the “IANA functions”' and finding ways to resolve conflicts between the laws of different countries.

This does not look like government control, just change over the ICANN (a private US non-profit) and the formation of a global advisory group. Can it deviate into government control? Sure. But that doesn't seem to be what is being proposed.

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#33

Post by andyjohnson0 »

forgotAgain wrote: post #9

Like the governance in England where the government decides what you should be watching? Perhaps they'll uses the French model and make it illegal to say anything critical about the French government. Or perhaps they'll adopt the Turkish attitude of jail time for those who speak the truth (if Turkey gets into the EU). How are they better than the American model of Uncle Sam lurking in the background of everyone's liv…

"Government control of the internet, by any government, will inevitably lead to censorship."

You may be right about that specific point. So what's the alternative? Corporate control? UN?

If the net is governed by some form of institution, then that institution will need widespread legitimacy. I'm not saying that the current controllers have that, but a transfer of governance won't happen without it.

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#34

Post by alkonaut »

Let's face it, the internet is centralized (hierarchical), not distributed. ICANN has taken giant steps to being a "global" organization, but in the end it's still a californian non-profit.

These reforms seem to just aim to make ICANN a more globally managed organization, and increase transparency in top-level decisionmaking. I can't see anywhere where it says it wants to increase governments' ability to block cat videos.

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#35

Post by jpadkins »

rikkus wrote: post #12

Governments have some control over the 'managing' and 'running' of the Internet, via TLD control, blocking, filtering, surveillance and legislation (e.g. the cookie law in EU), but even with all these in place, they're not really 'running' the Internet. If they did, there'd be no newsgroups, no torrents and no porn. They're seizing more control as time goes on, however: See the death of Net Neutrality in the US. I'd…

can you give an example of the death of net neutrality in the US?

Like it actually happening. Not a court case that rules on a hypothetical.

Also, can you cite a time when the internet did not prioritize traffic?

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#36

Post by powertower »

Isn't the "management" of the internet already kind of off-hands by the US gov and somewhat open (I'm not talking about the spying stuff). Especially with regards to the draconian ways other countries treat it (China, Iran, etc).

So what the EU really is saying is that they want to lock things down a bit further.

The want more domain-name control, more gov level blocking and filtering, more surveillance, more data retention, and all kinds of new laws.

The sad part of all this is the naive crowd here is probably thinking - finally, let them stick it to the US!

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#37

Post by morkbot »

Some here are quick to dismiss it as another attempt at "evil government seizing the control over oh-so-free Internet", whereas if you actually read what's there it's more about taking the governance over Internet out of American hands (basically what ICANN wants anyway) + doing something (not sure what exactly) to ensure the freedom in the Internet.

Not bad ideas in themselves, dunno about the execution. Personally I think it wouldn't be that bad to have some governmental control over some of the Internet functions.

Prefer this instead of leaving it at hands of corporations that only care about money (even if I agree that it's all a muddy area that can lead to some bad stuff too).

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#39

Post by jpadkins »

veganarchocap wrote: post #19

And here marks the end of what the Internet was supposed to be.

and then a new internet will rise up for the free minds. The old one will become a government controlled 'walled garden' mirroring meatspace.

Re: European Commission proposes a reform to the way the Internet is managed and run

#40

Post by davidnu2 »

SEMW wrote: post #28
davidnu wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have a free speech clause in your constitutions that is above all else (neither does the UK). You ban or at least attempt to ban questionable comedy/satire. You have ridiculous liable laws (so does the UK). You're government mustn't be allowed within a mile (1.60934 km) of an Internet governing body.

> You don't have a free speech clause in your constitutions that is above all else (neither does the UK) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_10_of_the_European_Conv...

First it's not "above all else" seeing that it's "Article 10".

Second, the second clause basically negates the first one in its entirety:

2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

The USA's first amendment of the constitutions includes no such concession nor limitations.

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