Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to Burn Out Programming

blog.braegger.pw

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 119 posts

Re: How to Burn Out Programming

#71

Post by DanielBMarkham »

"Switch jobs often"

Er, no.

Let's look at the reasons he offers.

"Growing in the company (developer -> manager -> director)" Yes. You can become master and commander of how to get along and make a good impression on one bunch of people. Or you can learn from many. Guess which one is going to help you once the company lays you off.

"Gaining an expertise in a specific area. Considering it takes 4-6 years for a PhD student to get their PhD, that's a lot of time you need for learnin." You become an expert in a technical field by using some piece of tech in many different situations. In the vast majority of job-related situations, whatever situation you've got, you've got. It ain't changing.

"You are having to start from scratch often. If you are a good developer, you have to "prove" yourself (people listen to you) all over again." Starting from scratch, proving your worth, is a good thing. We don't want people who think they can rest on their laurels. Every now and then kick yourself in the ass to see if you can still hack it -- before life does it for you.

A more interesting blog entry would be "How to work past burn-out" That is, okay, fine, you've reached the end of your rope. You care about nothing, you're cranky all the time, you're lethargic, and you're bitter. How do you get up tomorrow morning and be happy while doing a good job without losing your livelihood? Because that's where a lot of people are, not making lists of things to do to avoid burnout.

Re: How to Burn Out Programming

#72

Post by yardie »

pcl wrote: post #36

Growing in the company (developer -> manager -> director) One of the great things about Cisco (my current employer) is that there's a really strong technical career path that doesn't force engineers into the management hierarchy. I hope that this becomes more common at tech companies as time goes on.

As much as I like to shit on Cisco and the price on their devices, according to the engineers I've spoken to, they have a great work-life balance. As far as big companies go it's one of the few I wouldn't mind working for.

Re: How to Burn Out Programming

#73

Post by wslh »

rjzzleep wrote: post #68
sakri wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moderate exercise not only treats, but prevents depression http://media.utoronto.ca/media-releases/moderate-exercise-no... I don't like jogging, so I go for a walk everyday, which includes a lot of hills and stairs. Not only do I meet my 10,000 steps on my step counter, but it's when I come up with my best ideas. Also being grossly overweight does no favors to keeping depression away.

this^^ i spend all my time in front of my computer(including my train and bus rides), but i also do sports almost every day. the problem a lot of us face is that they can't stop thinking about work related things. be it political, company hierarchy(or architecture), or a soft/hardware related problem, that you didn't manage to fix in time. personally i find running or working to allow me too much time to think. i fin…

i find my balance in sports, that require 100% attention

It's not a sport but I recommend cooking, doing Legos (have you tried EV3?), etc as a way to connect to physical things.

Re: How to Burn Out Programming

#74

Post by duaneb »

girvo wrote: post #52
sakri wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moderate exercise not only treats, but prevents depression http://media.utoronto.ca/media-releases/moderate-exercise-no... I don't like jogging, so I go for a walk everyday, which includes a lot of hills and stairs. Not only do I meet my 10,000 steps on my step counter, but it's when I come up with my best ideas. Also being grossly overweight does no favors to keeping depression away.

For me, exercise (running, surfing, and lately doing weights -- I've never done the latter before by I'm enjoying it), coupled with my thinking therapy coping mechanisms (CBT works wonders for me) has completely placed my depression into remission for the past year and a half. That's the longest time I've gone without an episode since I was 15, and I'm 23 now. I use antidepressants when I feel an episode starting --…

I second the CBT aside—it's very effective at helping people work with their own thoughts & responses in a relentlessly directed manner.

Re: How to Burn Out Programming

#76

Post by collyw »

mcv wrote: post #64
acron0 wrote: post #46

Number 4 worries me. What's considered to be "too short" a time period between jobs? I was at my previous job 18 months - I'd say a bit 'too short'. I've been at my current job 3 years. Is that 'too short' to think about moving on because I'm bored?

To me, 4 years is too long. 2 years is probably perfect for a salaried job. 6-12 months for a freelance contract. But this can be totally different for other people.

The think is, for any type of maintenance programming on a large system, it takes 6 months to get up to speed and be properly productive in my experience.

Re: How to Burn Out Programming

#77

Post by collyw »

thkim wrote: post #55

Also worthy to note, some neurologists believe that burn out may be a result of effort and reward imbalance, more so than physical drain. I believe this is known as effort reward imbalance theory.

Does that fall under neurology? - it sounds more like psychology to me.

Re: How to Burn Out Programming

#78

Post by GrinningFool »

wslh wrote: post #73
rjzzleep wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this^^ i spend all my time in front of my computer(including my train and bus rides), but i also do sports almost every day. the problem a lot of us face is that they can't stop thinking about work related things. be it political, company hierarchy(or architecture), or a soft/hardware related problem, that you didn't manage to fix in time. personally i find running or working to allow me too much time to think. i fin…

i find my balance in sports, that require 100% attention It's not a sport but I recommend cooking, doing Legos (have you tried EV3?), etc as a way to connect to physical things.

Old fashioned jigsaw puzzles are good for this too, though for problem-solving types perhaps a bit too hard to put down...

Re: How to Burn Out Programming

#79

Post by troels »

vog wrote: post #57
benjaminwootton wrote: post #49

I also think you can fall into a kind of reverse burnout. If you work in a slow beauacratic environment with no stress, no accountability, no change and no challenge then you really do start to notice all of the same symptoms.

> reverse burnout This is also known as "boreout". (However, I can't find evidence that "boreout" is a well-known word outside Germany. So maybe it's just one of our many German inventions of pseudo-english words.)

It's a good word irregardless.

Re: How to Burn Out Programming

#80

Post by michaelochurch »

#4 seems to be generating a lot of controversy, because the reverse also leads to burnout.

First, if you expect every job to last 5+ years, you'll often make suboptimal choices when it comes to balancing your own needs vs. the stated corporate objectives. Mistakes #1 (single-project myopia) and #5 (long hours, to the detriment of the rest of one's life) occur when people lose the ability to look outside their own jobs. If you have it in your mind that you absolutely must stay with a company for the next 10 years, you're much more likely to make those sorts of mistakes.

It's ideal that you get a good job and it lasts 5+ years, but you have to go to work with the understanding that the world might change on you in an instant.

What you need to do is focus always on your career. Try to kick out as much of your work to the open-source world as you can. Network before you need it. You need to play so that if you lose your job tomorrow, you'll be OK. Because you just might. It can happen to anyone at any time. If you plan your career properly, though, the next job will be a step up. It's when you're constantly moving around with no progress-- spending 6 months out of each year "on-boarding" into parochial corporate knowledge instead of career-advancing general knowledge-- that you'll burn out.

Leaving a job stupidly is a mistake. If you're learning a lot and something mildly annoys you, quitting in a huff is the wrong way to go. When you get something good, hold on to it for as long as it lasts. But don't throw good time after bad, either, because that will lead to burnout just as quickly.

The truth on all of these is that there are tradeoffs. Is it a good idea to work long hours? If a month-long burst of 80-hour effort will buy you career advancement that'd otherwise take 2 years, then suck it up and work. If it's just going to get you more grunt work (which is usually the case) then blow it off. Similarly, with job tenure, I think the poker player's maxim-- be very selective, and very aggressive-- applies. Fold losing hands early, but when you have cards (i.e. a job that's doing a lot for your career) then play it hard.

Post reply on HN