John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar • Hacker News Board

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#41

Post by ynniv » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 5:00 AM UTC

pvnick wrote: post #31

eclipxe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the reason sugar gets a bad rep is because of what it does to your body. The insulin response to sugar is the primary way your body stores fat and sugar itself is readily converted to fat. The glucose & fructose spikes are also source of inflammation. It is believed that this inflammation is the cause of some of the damage related to heart disease, etc.

>The insulin response to sugar is the primary way your body stores fat and sugar itself is readily converted to fat This is a common myth, but it's wrong. Dietary fat is what is primarily stored and leads to weight gain during caloric excess; dietary carbs just decrease the amount of fat being used for energy, but can also get stored as fat tissue during overfeeding in a process called de novo lipogenesis (which is w…

it all comes back to calories in vs calories out.

12 cans of Coke a day = healthy diet?

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#42

Post by ef4 » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 5:01 AM UTC

pvnick wrote: post #31

eclipxe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the reason sugar gets a bad rep is because of what it does to your body. The insulin response to sugar is the primary way your body stores fat and sugar itself is readily converted to fat. The glucose & fructose spikes are also source of inflammation. It is believed that this inflammation is the cause of some of the damage related to heart disease, etc.

>The insulin response to sugar is the primary way your body stores fat and sugar itself is readily converted to fat This is a common myth, but it's wrong. Dietary fat is what is primarily stored and leads to weight gain during caloric excess; dietary carbs just decrease the amount of fat being used for energy, but can also get stored as fat tissue during overfeeding in a process called de novo lipogenesis (which is w…

> Again, it all comes back to calories in vs calories out.

Which is both true and irrelevant, because the system that governs calories in and calories out is a complex control loop. When it's working correctly, weight is effortlessly maintained within a narrow range thanks to compensating adjustments in appetite and, to a lesser extent, metabolism.

When it isn't working right, people try to drive the process with their frontal cortex instead, which only a small fraction of population can actually achieve for any significant length of time.

So the most interesting questions in nutrition science are all around what effects satiety and why we have an epidemic of people with broken control loops. Sugar is a very strong suspect in that investigation.

And before someone says we aren't evolved for an environment of plenty, and our bodies just hoard every calorie they can get in case of famine -- that's really not it. No mammal simply hoards every calorie it can get without homeostatic feedback. Survival incentivizes balance -- hoarding a calorie means you don't spend that calorie today on something else that would aid your reproductive success. Which is why we (and most animals) have an extremely dynamic system to monitor and maintain appropriate energy stores.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#43

Post by eclipxe » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 5:01 AM UTC

jimeuxx wrote: post #19

Lustig could no doubt write some great posts here about growth hacking and selling your product, but if there's one thing he's proven about nutrition, it's that he's no one to be taken seriously when talking about it. One taste of what Joe Public doesn't see in his unintended hyperbole is here: http://sweetenerstudies.com/sites/default/files/resources/fi... Blaming sugar for everything is no better than what the fat-…

What exactly is self-parodying about a "keto-adapted" lifestyle? Rice and bananas cause some of the same effects of sugar on the body. Some people can tolerate this and others can't.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#44

Post by matwood » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 5:03 AM UTC

eclipxe wrote: post #39

pvnick wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The insulin response to sugar is the primary way your body stores fat and sugar itself is readily converted to fat This is a common myth, but it's wrong. Dietary fat is what is primarily stored and leads to weight gain during caloric excess; dietary carbs just decrease the amount of fat being used for energy, but can also get stored as fat tissue during overfeeding in a process called de novo lipogenesis (which is w…

We can go back and forth on this, but HN isn't the place. I've had this debate many times and it ends nowhere. Bottom line, calories-in vs calories-out is a fine and dandy statement, but tells us nothing of value about the cause of increased calorie consumption. I agree with you that for weight gain to occur, there must be a greater energy intake than burn, but what causes more caloric intake?

Eating? I'm only partially joking. Calories don't just magically appear.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#45

Post by ansimionescu » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 5:03 AM UTC

pvnick wrote: post #18

I'm getting sick of this ignorant sugar alarmism. Sugar is not the culprit behind all the diseases listed in the article. Obesity is [5] [6]. Unless of course you're talking about cavities. Then not brushing your teeth is the culprit. The reason sugar gets such a bad rep is that high-sugar foods tend to be less-filling and lead to overeating [1]. Stay at a healthy weight by controlling caloric consumption [2]. The ar…

http://www.businessinsider.com/whats-wrong-with-the-modern-d...

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#46

Post by CEyzaguirre » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 5:05 AM UTC

cperciva wrote: post #27

CEyzaguirre wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because skinny people don't get diabetes right? /s

Rates of type 2 diabetes are in the non-overweight population are extremely low. Skinny people can get type 1 diabetes, but that's a completely different disease -- acquired hypoinsulinaemia, as opposed to hyperlipedaemia. (Note, neither diabetes is essentially about glucose; it just happens that hyperglycaemia is a symptom of both diseases, and Aretaeus didn't know better.)

The only point I'm trying to make is that blood sugar is culprit of the numerous conditions afflicting wealthy countries, not just obesity. Clearly obesity isn't a neutral variable in this equation.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#47

Post by mishkovski » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 5:05 AM UTC

eclipxe wrote: post #34

mishkovski wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sugar is not the culprit behind all the diseases listed in the article. Obesity is And sugar is culprit behind overeating and obesity.

Precisely. Experiment: eat 500 calories of sugar (ice cream, soda, candy). Wait 15-20 minutes, how hungry are you? Now, eat 500 calories of fat (heavy cream, bacon, pork belly, etc). Wait 15-20 minutes, how hungry are you? I've done this experiment a few times now, and without fail, I crave more food after the sugar and can't eat another bite after the fat.

I can confirm that from my own experience. I lost 20kg in 6 months. Yes I restricted my calorie intake. But how I did that? By controlling my appetite with avoiding carbs especially sugar. Ketogenic diet is powerful tool for restricting calorie intake.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#48

Post by jimeuxx » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 5:06 AM UTC

eclipxe wrote: post #34

mishkovski wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sugar is not the culprit behind all the diseases listed in the article. Obesity is And sugar is culprit behind overeating and obesity.

Precisely. Experiment: eat 500 calories of sugar (ice cream, soda, candy). Wait 15-20 minutes, how hungry are you? Now, eat 500 calories of fat (heavy cream, bacon, pork belly, etc). Wait 15-20 minutes, how hungry are you? I've done this experiment a few times now, and without fail, I crave more food after the sugar and can't eat another bite after the fat.

I don't think the idea that junk food is bad for you is surprising to anyone, even if Lustig paints it as a revelation. Have you tried 500 calories worth of apples?

The closer people move to actual food and sanity, the further I feel we'll move away from obesity. Rehashed sensationalism helps few other than diet gurus and their brand.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#49

Post by victorhooi » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 5:07 AM UTC

I'm currently reading "The Low-Carb Fraud", by Dr. T. Colin Campbell, who was one of the original authors of the China Study.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Low-Carb-Fraud-Colin-Campbell/dp/1...

Campbell has multiple degrees in biochemistry and nutrition, and from what I can tell, seems to be pretty well respected in his field.

On the other hand, Gary Taube, who wrote Good Calories, Bad Calories, and who people here seem to hold up as some kind of nutritional guru - basically is a science writer, with no formal education in nutrition at all.

Campbell basically spends the first few chapters debunking many of Gary Taubes's conclusions, and then talking about the current low-carb fads.

Definitely a good read, and approachable.

Re: John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

#50

Post by joering2 » Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 5:07 AM UTC

eclipxe wrote: post #39

pvnick wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The insulin response to sugar is the primary way your body stores fat and sugar itself is readily converted to fat This is a common myth, but it's wrong. Dietary fat is what is primarily stored and leads to weight gain during caloric excess; dietary carbs just decrease the amount of fat being used for energy, but can also get stored as fat tissue during overfeeding in a process called de novo lipogenesis (which is w…

We can go back and forth on this, but HN isn't the place. I've had this debate many times and it ends nowhere. Bottom line, calories-in vs calories-out is a fine and dandy statement, but tells us nothing of value about the cause of increased calorie consumption. I agree with you that for weight gain to occur, there must be a greater energy intake than burn, but what causes more caloric intake?

Right on, and thats why they brand sugar as deadly poison -- it affects your brain and tricks it into wanting more of it because its a drug of pleasure. Then it makes you never full so you eat more of other stuff that eventually gets you sick.

Like with anything else, including alcohol or even heroine (altho that one very limited) - nothing in reasonable limitations will kill you. If you have strong will then you keep your brain on leech and treat it as a pleasure you consume time to time in limitations. If you eat it daily in large quanitities, then you helping yourself to get sick.