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Bitcoin Exchanges Under ‘Massive and Concerted Attack’

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181–190 of 218 posts

Re: Bitcoin Exchanges Under ‘Massive and Concerted Attack’

#181
post #135

Day one: Slander the biggest exchange and hang your neck out calming the entrenched. "They are amateurs. This is that exchange's problem. $1000 is but days away." Day two: Uhh... "Stay calm. This is just the expression of that non-issue looking like an issue. We know what we're doing." Bitcoin has, generally, intrinsic crash protection right now. The price can't plummet if you can't find trading partners. Nobody real…

Then put your money where your mouth is. There are bitcoin derivative markets that let you short it. Hell, PM me and I'll personally bet against you on a 6 mo time horizon.

Re: Bitcoin Exchanges Under ‘Massive and Concerted Attack’

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are these things called safes...

Are you going to put the safe under your mattress? Or do you think a secure encrypted and password protected wallet stored on a tiny USB drive or SD card might be more secure?

Embed it in the floor, since you ask.

Not that I think this is the ne plus ultra of security, but since having a digital wallet doesn't obviate the existence of valuable physical documents (eg passports, title deeds) you might still want to use a safe to protect against fire, burglary, and so on.

One distinct benefit of a physical store is that removal or tampering are more obvious.

Re: Bitcoin Exchanges Under ‘Massive and Concerted Attack’

#183
post #4

It's interesting to watch actually, submit a transaction to the network at the moment and there's a rogue node that will mess with the padding of the signatures and rebroadcast it faster than the original. It confuses the reference client into duplicate display, which is what Gox is relying on for the failed/success display. That they're winning races over the normal related transactions isn't that unnatural as the t…

I actually removed the 100ms sleep. I believe the change was made in release 0.8.6

Forgot the link...

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3180

Re: Bitcoin Exchanges Under ‘Massive and Concerted Attack’

#184
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note that the US unlinked in 1970 and the last year that the GINI coefficient improved was 1973. FDR temporarily unlinked in 1933 and we had the great depression [1]. The U.S. domestic economy unlinked in 1933, permanently. Only international trade continued to use gold-backed currency, and it is that aspect which was finally eliminated in 1973. Likewise you have mixed up your cause/effect for the Great Depression,…

> The U.S. domestic economy unlinked in 1933, permanently. Only international trade continued to use gold-backed currency, and it is that aspect which was finally eliminated in 1973. If the iternational market for dollars is still linked, in spite of domestic unlinkage, there is still some level of grounding, because of the possibility of commodity arbitrage (both directly and indirectly). Certainly there was inflati…

> No, price controls are setting the price relative to a standard that's backed up by guns (guns = "control", as in, if you don't do what I say I can shoot you, or point a gun at you and take you to jail). Dollars are already backed up by guns, so the notion of 'price controlling' dollars makes no sense.

On the contrary, with a fixed-ratio gold standard currency it is still the state who said that a dollar was by definition equivalent with, say, 1/35th of an ounce of gold (as it was just before the U.S. finally abandoned the standard for good). But the only reason the government would give you $35/troy ounce was because of the men with the guns, and the government could change their minds.

In fact, the U.S. did arbitrarily change their mind several times throughout their history about "what gold was worth". This didn't change the market value of gold of course, but this didn't stop the politicians from abusing fiscal policy for their own interests.

The interesting thing is more that there was a market value of gold which was different from the "official" government price of gold, which should illustrate by itself the issue.

Rather there was never anything special about gold except that people thought it was special. The U.S. started off on a gold and silver standard after all, which led to problems fairly soon after since the difference between gold and silver value that Congress decreed was not always the difference the markets created.

While I'll agree it's possible to have gold-backed fiat currency (like the Civil War-era greenbacks), there's no reason why it's "more responsible". It's still just as susceptible to government intervention and it unnecessarily conflates non-orthogonal concepts for the sake of... what?

Gold was only valuable because people thought it was valuable. If you went to a desert island you could form an economy on water bottles. Prisoners actually did form economies on cigarettes, and when cigarettes were banned the currency shifted to cans of mackerel.

As far as I'm concerned gold-backed dollars make as much sense as dollars backed by sardine cans. At least true fiat currencies (and Bitcoin) finally gave up the middle-man and acknowledge that their currencies are worth what people think they're worth. It may be too spooky, but it's the truth.

Re: Bitcoin Exchanges Under ‘Massive and Concerted Attack’

#185
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

part of the reason is that bit coin does not depend on any banks if you have 100 btc in an offline wallet, you will still have it tomorrow, despite whatever bugs/attacks hit the exchanges. imagine if your bank was hacked, many people would literally be removed of their money. With cryptocoins, you have the advantages of keeping dollars under your mattress while still bring able to spend them anywhere that accepts the…

> imagine if your bank was hacked, many people would literally be removed of their money. Are you sure about that? For the most part those transactions would simply be reversed. Bitcoin exchanges seem a lot more exposed to computer security breaches to me. > With cryptocoins, you have the advantages of keeping dollars under your mattress while still bring able to spend them anywhere that accepts them. Paper currency…

You need to be connected to send them but not receive them.

Re: Bitcoin Exchanges Under ‘Massive and Concerted Attack’

#186

What was the intent of including something like transaction malleability in the Sotahsi client?

It's a bug. Signatures have multiple equivalent forms, and the clients don't require that representations are canonical. >The first form of malleability is in the signatures themselves. Each signature has exactly one DER-encoded ASN.1 octet representation, but openssl does not enforce this, and as long as a signature isn't horribly malformed, it will be accepted. In addition for every ECDSA signature (r,s), the signa…

I don't think it should be called a bug. Peter Todd (well-known Bitcoin developer), said[1]:

> [...]I'm a bit hesitant to bake in assumptions about malleability when we have no solid idea if ECC signatures are or are not malleable on a fundemental level; if "whack-a-mole" anti-malleability is all we've got it could be ugly if a break is found.

I understand this to mean, there may be unknown ways to transform signatures, like the s sign flip you quoted. In that case there would be no way to know which representation is "canonical." Thus, malleability is either a fundamental, fatal flaw in Bitcoin, or just something Bitcoin developers need to work around.

Now, it seems even the reference implementation isn't perfect about malleability, and perhaps people could have been better about making the issue known. So there is work to be done, but it is not a "bug" that can be "fixed", at least not without upgrading the entire network, and/or risking it popping up in the future when someone applies more ECDSA signature mutation tricks. The real solution, if you want to safely fingerprint transactions, is to make your own transaction hash that is immune to malleability, like [2].

[1] http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=319546...

[2] https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/e7853a91cf646a6a47011...

Re: Bitcoin Exchanges Under ‘Massive and Concerted Attack’

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on I almost read that as meaning bitcoin has less financial capability as fiat currency, which we all know is patently false because the premise of bitcoin is centered around an increased flexibility compared with fiat currency.

You're quite wrong -- BTC is strictly less flexible than fiat. I have my own opinions, but this is inarguable and is presented as an advantage of Bitcoin, for example Bitcoin cannot be created arbitrarily by a government, Bitcoin transactions cannot be reversed, untraceable transactions cannot occur in Bitcoin, et cetera. All of these are clear restrictions upon existing currency systems. Some possible ways that it m…

The reversibility of bitcoin is no different from passing around physical dollar bills. If you want to reverse a transaction involving actual cast, you must convince the other person to give it back, or physically wrest possession of the currency from them.

Reversibility shows up when you do transactions in a bank or other third party that can reverse the transaction on its own accord. There's no theoretical reason why this can't happen with bitcoin instead - you give your BTC to a hypothetical, highly regulated bank or broker or whatever, and then the transaction is exactly as reversible as any electronic transaction using dollars. The confusion sets in when you compare Bitcoin transactions with electronic transactions using fiat currency, when they're closer in many ways to physical cash transactions in nature.

Re: Bitcoin Exchanges Under ‘Massive and Concerted Attack’

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're quite wrong -- BTC is strictly less flexible than fiat. I have my own opinions, but this is inarguable and is presented as an advantage of Bitcoin, for example Bitcoin cannot be created arbitrarily by a government, Bitcoin transactions cannot be reversed, untraceable transactions cannot occur in Bitcoin, et cetera. All of these are clear restrictions upon existing currency systems. Some possible ways that it m…

The reversibility of bitcoin is no different from passing around physical dollar bills. If you want to reverse a transaction involving actual cast, you must convince the other person to give it back, or physically wrest possession of the currency from them. Reversibility shows up when you do transactions in a bank or other third party that can reverse the transaction on its own accord. There's no theoretical reason w…

> when they're closer in many ways to physical cash transactions in nature.

I very much agree with you. This is also the right way to think about BTC exchanges -- an unregulated website that you ship cash to.

There are some subtleties around the specific nonphysical transaction mechanism of BTC that differentiate it from a cash transaction, which are sort of difficult to quantify currently because the technical and legal aspects have not been fully explored... as a hard example, imagine a BTC wallet coupled with a memorizable private key (or an effective substitute). This is essentially a cash store that cannot be confiscated, and which can be communicated verbally, i.e. within a protected (attorney-client) setting. There are some interesting implications there.

Re: Bitcoin Exchanges Under ‘Massive and Concerted Attack’

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the reason they gave for why houses always goes up.

You should know bitbugs don't like history.

Nobody likes history in the broad sense. Most people only like history that confirms their existing positions.
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