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Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

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Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#91

Post by josh-wrale »

JimboOmega wrote: post #55
kevingadd wrote: post #22

Nothing's quite as destructive as being told over and over that you're a natural at something so it'll be easy for you. It's a shame that well-meaning parents and mentors will sometimes undermine someone's potential by discouraging them from learning necessary skills.

Except assuming that if you did a bad job at something, it's because you were lazy. The message I got growing up was that "you're so smart, but so lazy". This was principally because of my terrible fine motor coordination combined with my intellect. So I'd try to do some sort of "posterboard" or "project" and it'd look like a slapped together mess no matter how hard I tried. My handwriting was often illegible to me,…

I bet you're left-handed like me.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#92

Post by ZephyrP »

Eliezer wrote: post #74
nswanberg wrote: post #65

For those curious about the context: https://lkml.org/lkml/2000/8/23/97 Note that noone replied to Eric and the thread continued on. Also go back and read some of Linus's posts before this. Eric writes using vague generalizations about age and experience; Linus writes with specifics about his experience with the kernel. The former style makes for popularly read posts but the latter seems much more effective. Also, co…

Yes, I came here looking for that. The lack of any specifics about the kernel issue at hand and the general attempt to project Age and Wisdom made me immediately suspicious.

ESR is known for this.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#93

Post by S4M »

SwellJoe wrote: post #82
S4M wrote: post #33

Is the reply of Torvalds online somewhere?

Someone else mentioned that ESR got no reply, and the thread continued on another path. So, Linus did not reply, it seems. But, he did begin using revision control soon after; though I think that's likely to have happened, anyway.

Yeah, I saw that comment and started to read the thread. It's interesting that Linus's talk is very concrete while ESR is rather abstract.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#94

Post by taternuts »

hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #85
austenallred wrote: post #18

I am miles away from Eric or Linus, but the "curse of the gifted" is very real. Thankfully I wasn't smart or gifted enough that I could ride it for long, but when it comes to math and problem-solving I rode it well into my high school years. I never learned to do algebra "by the book," because I didn't need to. Or maybe because I wasn't smart enough to. The math teacher would teach "3x + 6 = 9." Basic algebraic probl…

I can relate to that. College-level calculus burned me so much , I didn't had the algebra background necessary to grok it, much of it is memorizing heuristics and "tricks", and college professors (specially in my public uni) didn't had much patience either. I even did well in other math-related classes, but calculus was a chimera. Unfortunately, I fell so much behind the curriculum that I had to drop out of college t…

I definitely remember the first time I could no longer slack off, take 0's on homeworks, and ace tests to get a C+/B and it was in high-school :(

I jumped to AP Calculus without taking the pre-requisite AP class everyone else had taken, and I thought I was so cool and smart. By the weeks end I no longer felt so cool and smart - I was completely lost.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#95

Post by aryastark »

adriancooney wrote: post #19

This is so inadvertently affectionate. It's like a grandparent trying to calm down their overconfident, arrogant child. So eloquent. As a side note, I can't even imagine how Torvalds worked with others without source control. That sounds like absolute hell.

ESR is a dick. I really don't know why others don't see it here. He's always been a bit of a long-winded blowhard, even when he's right.

People worked without source control because CVS was not real version control. It was a bad joke, and Linus was right. Without integrity guarantees, a source control system is just a pain in the ass you'd rather not have to deal with. Tarballs, patches, and email worked fine back when the community was small and tight-knit.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#96

Post by jonalmeida »

cosmie wrote: post #81
ToastyMallows wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe me I've been there before. My point was rather that I think the person who was giving the test was wrong to offer that students use calculators.

I believe the parent was referring to the AP Calculus exam, based off of his 2 out of 5 score[1]. For non-Americans, AP exams are standardized tests administered by the College Board (company behind the SAT university entrance exams)[2]. Most universities will accept passing AP exam scores as the equivalent college credit (e.g. a score of 3/5 is usually accepted as college credit for Calculus I). AP Exams/Courses are…

Upvoted because you realized that we're not all American and don't all have any idea what "AP Calculus" was.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#98

Post by sp332 »

bronsoja wrote: post #83
sp332 wrote: post #4

Soon after this exchange, Linus started using a real source management system (BitKeeper, followed by git) for the kernel.

I'm assuming there was at least some scm in place before, but my few google searches haven't turned up what it was. Do you know? *edit: Didn't look hard enough, according to this: http://git-scm.com/book/en/Getting-Started-A-Short-History-o... it was just files and patches from 1991-2002. Seems crazy from a modern perspective...

Yeah, check this out from 1998 (two years before OP) https://lkml.org/lkml/1998/9/30/122

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#99

Post by derekp7 »

varelse wrote: post #17
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #3

This should be required reading for any developer, if only to hopefully instill the belief that you will eventually reach a problem that you cannot lean on pure ability alone to solve.

Fortunately, one frequently transitions to management and/or dies before this happens because one's career is finite. Linux and other such runaway success stories are true Black Swans and Linus's subsequent embrace of source code control IMO demonstrates you can teach new tricks to old dogs.

I don't remember that Linus was against source control -- it's just that none of the solutions at the time really fit the methodology that the Kernel was developed under. That was his main argument.

And actually, there was source control all along. Every version of the kernel was a separate tarball sitting on many ftp servers, and there was a patch / set of patches to bring it to the next version. It just wasn't a database-backed automated version control system.

Re: Curse Of The Gifted (2000)

#100

Post by nicholas73 »

austenallred wrote: post #18

I am miles away from Eric or Linus, but the "curse of the gifted" is very real. Thankfully I wasn't smart or gifted enough that I could ride it for long, but when it comes to math and problem-solving I rode it well into my high school years. I never learned to do algebra "by the book," because I didn't need to. Or maybe because I wasn't smart enough to. The math teacher would teach "3x + 6 = 9." Basic algebraic probl…

It happened to me during second semester Calculus. In first semester, the professor found out that I didn't do the assigned homework (worth no points) and said that I would "die" in next semester. Sure enough, it happened. What I learned over the years since that time is that some things just take practice or effort. The difference in Calc 2 was that the problems became non-intuitive and virtually everyone is forced to learn some identity or transformation to solve a problem (usually involving trig functions). Basically second-order formula plug and chug, but "effort" required to be able to do it right with time constraint.

I still didn't espouse the value of hard work until I've gotten out of college. I tried to cruise by like I always did, though it increasingly became untenable. What made me really understand working hard was actually through sports. There, I had no illusion of being superior, and it's established that you get better through practice. You get to see yourself getting better each time, and put yourself to the test. True iteration.

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