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Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

nature.com

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Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#41

Post by jcromartie »

discostrings wrote: post #34

It's disappointing to see so many people here read the title of the article and immediately start the see,-social-differences-are-the-result-of-vast-differences-between-the-binary-sexes wheel rolling again. It's nowhere near a valid conclusion from the article's content. There are racial differences in gene expression (though much smaller), too, but I doubt anyone would upvote it or start a similar conversation about…

> those differences appear to be more of a spectrum than a binary split

Except when you compare the average male and female.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#43

Post by greenrice »

maratd wrote: post #39
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle, as it often does. It's fallacious to assume that there are no inborn differences between men and women. It's equally fallacious to insist (as many do and will, probably citing this study) that there are vast and uncrossable gulfs between men and women, and that anyone who crosses those gulfs anyway must be some sort of deviant. Humans are complex, the product of both nature and…

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what your comment actually means. What gulfs? Men and women are complimentary. The masculine and the feminine interplay between each other and cooperate toward mutual benefit. There is no gulf. I reject the notion that we somehow have to eliminate the feminine and the masculine, to be left with some sort of androgynous average. That's just nonsense. And yes, some men can be feminine and…

I think you need to re-read the comment that you responded to.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#44

Post by s_baby »

phaer wrote: post #35
s_baby wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speak for yourself. I personally know a lesbian couple that forces their boy to wear dresses, play with dolls, and talk down anything traditionally "male". I completely agree with your original post but it's hard to deny there's a turd in the feminist kool-aid bowl and no one is willing to pull it out.

> Speak for yourself. I personally know a lesbian couple that forces their boy to wear dresses, play with dolls, and talk down anything traditionally "male". I am sorry, I don't see how that would be the same as "denying any difference between men and women". Do you really think, or even have proof which shows, that playing with dolls or wearing dresses is biologically, not socially, "male"? A lot of clothing convent…

If it's wrong to force traditional roles/identities onto those with a "queer" predisposition then the opposite is also true.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#45

Post by AutoCorrect »

jb17 wrote: post #6
AutoCorrect wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what the GP means is that there is a very vocal, very vitriolic subsection of the feminist movement that claim there is NO reason for the differences in men and women, other than the historical repression of women by men. Which couldn't be further from the truth: up until recently, women were very much at the mercy of the groups of men around them (physically), and only recently has the value of women in soci…

I don't think I ever encountered that argument, and when I see people arguing against it, it always seems to be a straw man. The argument I've encountered goes more like this: Because there has been historical oppression, we can't easily distinguish the influence of that from biology and should remove the oppression before we come up with biological theories that justify the oppression. That seems reasonable to me.

It's a complex situation, one we're not going to resolve any time soon, if ever. I believe (and it's just from my observations) that the cultural 'oppression' grew out of very real biological differences. But as our population has grown, the reasoning behind the gender roles has lessened in importance to us for survival as a species. There may yet come a time when the roles are again needed, but for now at least, it's time to relax and let people be who they want to be.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#47

Post by jforman »

FD3SA wrote: post #2

It is my sincere hope that this understanding becomes pervasive in society, such that the inane social movements based upon naught but angry emotional mob mentality become part of history. As it stands, young boys are medicated with psychiatric drugs for beings boys, and this is deemed acceptable by society. Boys are failing at every step in public institutions, with higher drop out rates at all levels of schooling.…

What "understanding"? This paper provides no evidence whatsoever that sex-biased gene expression is due to nature rather than nurture. They collected data from adults only (well, 2 people were under 20 out of 137 subjects).

You aren't sporting much evidence to justify a righteous rant against your "angry emotional mob mentality."

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#48

Post by s_baby »

discostrings wrote: post #34

It's disappointing to see so many people here read the title of the article and immediately start the see,-social-differences-are-the-result-of-vast-differences-between-the-binary-sexes wheel rolling again. It's nowhere near a valid conclusion from the article's content. There are racial differences in gene expression (though much smaller), too, but I doubt anyone would upvote it or start a similar conversation about…

>It's disappointing to see so many people here read the title of the article and immediately start the see,-social-differences-are-the-result-of-vast-differences-between-the-binary-sexes wheel rolling again.

But it's alright to just accept we're all products of socialization as a valid conclusion?

>What's the alternative being suggested?

A nuanced conversation on the interplay of biology and environment. Which there is very little of.

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#49

Post by rayiner »

FD3SA wrote: post #2

It is my sincere hope that this understanding becomes pervasive in society, such that the inane social movements based upon naught but angry emotional mob mentality become part of history. As it stands, young boys are medicated with psychiatric drugs for beings boys, and this is deemed acceptable by society. Boys are failing at every step in public institutions, with higher drop out rates at all levels of schooling.…

I quite favor the idea of gender-segregated schooling, because I do think boys as a whole get the short-end of the stick in K-6 because the school environment isn't structured as well for them.

That said, the structure of schooling isn't arbitrary. It's a reflection of the needs of a modern knowledge economy. It's something that doesn't just affect boys versus girls, but certain kinds of boys versus other kinds of boys. Compare your stereotypical programmer to the stereotypical kid who bullied him in 5th grade. More likely than not, the bully had less patience and a lower attention span, more physical strength and greater size, and a well-developed ability to get others to follow him through a mixture of coercion and manipulation. A thousand years ago, at least in Europe, these skills would have been a ticket to higher social status through violence and war. The programmer stereotype, if he was lucky, might have found reprieve in a monastery or something. Of course the shoe is quite on the other foot today, isn't it? The ability to do tedious, boring work for long hours is now valuable, and is basically what modern K-12 education prepares you to do.

Is our modern economy unfair to the bully?

Re: Widespread sex differences in gene expression in the human brain (2013)

#50

Post by vacri »

maratd wrote: post #39
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle, as it often does. It's fallacious to assume that there are no inborn differences between men and women. It's equally fallacious to insist (as many do and will, probably citing this study) that there are vast and uncrossable gulfs between men and women, and that anyone who crosses those gulfs anyway must be some sort of deviant. Humans are complex, the product of both nature and…

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what your comment actually means. What gulfs? Men and women are complimentary. The masculine and the feminine interplay between each other and cooperate toward mutual benefit. There is no gulf. I reject the notion that we somehow have to eliminate the feminine and the masculine, to be left with some sort of androgynous average. That's just nonsense. And yes, some men can be feminine and…

There is way too much false dichotomy in your comment. Boiling people down to being merely masculine or feminine is highly oversimplifying the human condition.
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