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Richard Lynch, an awesome PHP community guy and former colleague needs our help

richardlynch.blogspot.com

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Re: Richard Lynch, an awesome PHP community guy and former colleague needs our help

#251

Post by Kurtz79 »

sp332 wrote: post #242
ElDiablo666 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People against universal healthcare are just good people who are confused and/or deluded. Their arguments will never really add up because it's only about corporations making profits and to that end people will need to be deluded and manipulated into believing that we shouldn't implement a proper system. Just remember this when you say you don't get it: it's just the political power of traitors speaking through human…

I'm against public healthcare in the USA because there's no way (in the current political climate) it won't be massively corrupt. Did you know the insurance companies were lobbying in favor of our new system? It's still about corporations making profits.

By living in a few different countries, I found out believing that the current political climate of your own is somewhat worse than other ones where supposedly things work better is a common fallacy.

Universal healthcare exists (and works, with various degrees of success) in most countries that are otherwise very similiar to the US in terms of culture, form of government, and in some cases have worse corruption and bureocracy.

As in many things with democracy and social security, there would be inefficiencies, abuses and problems, the real issue is, in my opinion, if the people would be better off in the end, all things considered.

Re: Richard Lynch, an awesome PHP community guy and former colleague needs our help

#252

Post by blueskin_ »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #249
Xdes wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public healthcare ought to be implemented at the local level for those that want it (which I don't). I'm quite fine with not seeking treatment when I get a terminal illness. If it ever gets to that point I would prefer euthanasia (illegal in the USA).

> I'm quite fine with not seeking treatment when I get a terminal illness. If it ever gets to that point I would prefer euthanasia (illegal in the USA). You say that now, but I guarantee you the moment you get diagnosed you change your mind. Especially considering so many terminal illnesses can in fact be cured with (very expensive) treatments. Also, what about all the non-terminal illnessess? What happens if you bre…

>You say that now, but I guarantee you the moment you get diagnosed you change your mind. Especially considering so many terminal illnesses can in fact be cured with (very expensive) treatments.

By definition, they aren't terminal illness then. In any case, in the US (or many other countries), those treatments are unavailable or will literally make someone homeless (and preclude them ever getting insurance again). There's also the question of if it's worth it - will the end result provide proper quality of life or not.

Breaking a leg is a specious analogy as it is neither terminal nor permanent; but if something worse did happen and it would permanently affect my quality of life, yes, I'd still feel the same.

Re: Richard Lynch, an awesome PHP community guy and former colleague needs our help

#253

Post by thorin »

jwdunne wrote: post #217
lucisferre wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised. It wasn't long ago when I met an intelligent and otherwise very well informed American who truly believed that the "socialized" Canadian healthcare system was a 3rd rate disaster and feared any change to the precious US system would lead to a similar situation. Don't get me wrong he acknowledged it wasn't great, but there is more than sufficient doubt and confusion amongst most Americans with…

I'm from the UK. The NHS is shambles and is spread very, very thin. Doctors are pissed off. Patients are pissed off. The government seems to be too. However I would prefer the 3 hour A&E (ER) waiting times, being spoken to like shit if it isn't as serious as originally thought and epic waiting lists for outpatient services than having companies profit from my health and the massive vulnerability that puts me in (on t…

I just had a baby daughter. The care was excellent at a hospital a couple of miles from home. At one point we had 3 midwives helping, then the anaesthetist and for the delivery we had 3 doctors at one point. After-birth care was great too and we were encouraged to stay at the hospital until we felt comfortable going home all the while with adequate food and a private room.

We had to go to A and E with our daughter a couple of weeks ago. We were seen before I even had time to park my car after dropping off the wife and baby! The doctor and nurse were both very supportive and were happy to see us even reassuring us that we were absolutely right to come in even though no treatment was required in the end.

Around 10 years ago I had months of physio on the NHS and a series of consultant appointments. I was very happy with the service.

Yes, the NHS is struggling like all public services, but the media seem keen to trash the NHS and force us into privacy to keep the (mainly conservative) MP's happy and help their friends get the big contracts. It makes mistakes and isn't perfect but in general I've had good experiences.

I've also had surgery and a lengthy hospital stay in California. An excellent standard of service but at a massive cost (fortunately fully paid by my travel insurance).

I'd prefer the service as it is in the UK where everyone is equal insurance or not even if the quality is not quite as high as places where the end user is paying for the service.

Re: Richard Lynch, an awesome PHP community guy and former colleague needs our help

#254

Post by coldpie »

sp332 wrote: post #242
ElDiablo666 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People against universal healthcare are just good people who are confused and/or deluded. Their arguments will never really add up because it's only about corporations making profits and to that end people will need to be deluded and manipulated into believing that we shouldn't implement a proper system. Just remember this when you say you don't get it: it's just the political power of traitors speaking through human…

I'm against public healthcare in the USA because there's no way (in the current political climate) it won't be massively corrupt. Did you know the insurance companies were lobbying in favor of our new system? It's still about corporations making profits.

As opposed to the current situation?

Re: Richard Lynch, an awesome PHP community guy and former colleague needs our help

#255

Post by Xylakant »

tripzilch wrote: post #232
natrius wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't fear the rest of the world getting better than us at medicine. Money motivates most people. The best doctors will go where they can get the most money. That is here. If I had to pick between the UK's system, where price controls help pay for healthcare for those who can't afford it, and the Affordable Care Act, where wealthy people pay for healthcare for those who can't afford it, I'd choose the Affordable Ca…

> Money motivates most people. The best doctors will go where they can get the most money. Except that most doctors already make plenty and that most doctors are in fact also strongly motivated by the desire to help and treat people. That's why they became doctors, and the latter desire helps them achieve becoming better doctors much more than a desire for money. I'm not saying they're not motivated by money. Just th…

An interesting thing I learned when my uncle had cancer was that "the best doctors" would often only treat cases with at least a moderate chance of survival since they didn't want to ruin their stats.

Re: Richard Lynch, an awesome PHP community guy and former colleague needs our help

#256

Post by thenomad »

jwdunne wrote: post #217
lucisferre wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised. It wasn't long ago when I met an intelligent and otherwise very well informed American who truly believed that the "socialized" Canadian healthcare system was a 3rd rate disaster and feared any change to the precious US system would lead to a similar situation. Don't get me wrong he acknowledged it wasn't great, but there is more than sufficient doubt and confusion amongst most Americans with…

I'm from the UK. The NHS is shambles and is spread very, very thin. Doctors are pissed off. Patients are pissed off. The government seems to be too. However I would prefer the 3 hour A&E (ER) waiting times, being spoken to like shit if it isn't as serious as originally thought and epic waiting lists for outpatient services than having companies profit from my health and the massive vulnerability that puts me in (on t…

My girlfriend just had a major operation on the NHS.

The pre-op preparation was really impressive, the operation itself was astonishingly quick and well-performed (I was not expecting her to be conscious and talking 2 hours after having a non-trivial part of her body replaced), the post-operative care was pretty decent but certainly not terrible, and the physiotherapy support and general aftercare was good to great. They provided the equipment she'd need to get about the house and keep up her normal life whilst she was recovering, and in general, the whole experience was good to excellent.

Re: Richard Lynch, an awesome PHP community guy and former colleague needs our help

#257

Post by [deleted] »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #249
Xdes wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public healthcare ought to be implemented at the local level for those that want it (which I don't). I'm quite fine with not seeking treatment when I get a terminal illness. If it ever gets to that point I would prefer euthanasia (illegal in the USA).

> I'm quite fine with not seeking treatment when I get a terminal illness. If it ever gets to that point I would prefer euthanasia (illegal in the USA). You say that now, but I guarantee you the moment you get diagnosed you change your mind. Especially considering so many terminal illnesses can in fact be cured with (very expensive) treatments. Also, what about all the non-terminal illnessess? What happens if you bre…

[deleted]

Re: Richard Lynch, an awesome PHP community guy and former colleague needs our help

#258

Post by prophet_ »

overgard wrote: post #117
amix wrote: post #104

I donated $50, but I really wish US (and other countries) would reconsider their broken healthcare systems. My dad died of cancer a few years ago and I am really glad we lived in Denmark when he got it - - with a great public healthcare system. He lived 2 years with his cancer, which is a lot when you are counting days. Not many normal people can afford these things (as each of my dads treatments cost about 20.000USD…

I donated $100, and yeah, our healthcare system is a goddamn travesty. I don't get it. If you're fortunate to live long enough, the one thing that's guaranteed to eventually happen is you're going to get sick in a very expensive manner. It's not an "if" question, it's a "when" question. I don't think that should mean financial ruin. People against universal healthcare must think they're just immune to ever getting si…

Why people mention how much they donated? Am I missing on something?

Re: Richard Lynch, an awesome PHP community guy and former colleague needs our help

#259

Post by santosha »

colechristensen wrote: post #250
crag wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You won't find much sympathy for the middle class who choose a nicer house in a more expensive city, a newer car, or a bigger family instead of safety and security for the future." The average cymo treatment is about $75,000 a hit. So, you know anyone who is prepared for that? The top 1% are, of course. But the rest of us? Those who don't have insurance are fucked. Those that do are ok until they get a bill for serv…

The thing that seems to be missing from most people's argument is that the cost doesn't go away if you move to a single-payer healthcare system. You still pay for that $75k in the form of higher taxes and higher prices... it doesn't get erased. Wanting a non-standard treatment and not being approved won't change with single-payer... you'll still have to sell everything you own to pay for it.

Saying the cost doesn't 'go away' is deflecting from the fact that it does reduce overall, because of a number of reasons. Administrative costs are vastly reduced. Employers no longer have to negotiate individual contracts with insurers. Hospitals don't need huge administrative staff for deals with different insurers and paperwork for each one. On the whole, the cost savings from moving to single-payer take a huge bite out of the increased taxes.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/what-is-single-payer

Under plans like H-R 676, 95% of people are expected to pay less overall for healthcare. So, no, you are not paying for 'that $75k', you are paying for much less.

Re: Richard Lynch, an awesome PHP community guy and former colleague needs our help

#260

Post by secstate »

natrius wrote: post #206
secstate wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But 90% of the world doesn't die from exotic cancers, at least not below the age of 50 (or 60 ... keeps creeping up). The idea that advanced medicine is an justification for for-profit medicine is a straw man argument. The reality is that there are many more nuanced single-payer healthcare systems in the world than the one where the government tells you who gets to live and who gets to die. In the U.K. for example, t…

I don't fear the rest of the world getting better than us at medicine. Money motivates most people. The best doctors will go where they can get the most money. That is here. If I had to pick between the UK's system, where price controls help pay for healthcare for those who can't afford it, and the Affordable Care Act, where wealthy people pay for healthcare for those who can't afford it, I'd choose the Affordable Ca…

No, but if your theory of healthcare is that private healthcare produces the best, most advanced treatments, then by all rights you should fear the world getting better than us at medicine. Healthcare is by it's nature a social issue as well as an economic issue. And a draining of doctors in the USA would have a devastating effect on general health.

Even more important is pointing out that medicine is already not a perfect capitalist economy. Insurance companies negotiate crazy deals with hospitals and doctors to avoid paying out, and the hospitals and docs are driven to post prices as high as humanly possible because the insurers are so ruthless in undercutting every single expense. What would Ayn Rand have made of a world where generic Advil in a hospital setting cost 1000% of what the drug store is charging? That's not a Smith economy. That's a gross perversion of free economics.

That's the snake eating it's tail on the other end of price control. $25 per pill for pain killers [1]? It's a joke.

[1] http://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/blog/why-aspirin-taken-...

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