Hemingway's abuse of language in For Whom the Bell Tolls always drove me. He uses you in place of tu and thou as usted .
That's how the words are typically understood among modern English speakers...
Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?
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Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?
#42I know a guy who got to meet Queen Elizabeth. He was required to go through a royal customs seminar before meeting her. Apparently, you NEVER use "you" when talking to the queen. You can't say "Would you like some tea?". You must say "Would Your Majesty like some tea?". Hows that for formal.
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?
#43In Portuguese and German there are still the formal and informal cases: Formal : Você, Informal: Tu The same thing in German: Formal : Sie, Informal: Du I am not a linguistics guy but I think that Thou, Du, Tu have all the same origin as they sound so similar.
The Roman empire spread latin far and wide.
yes, that completely explains a phenomenon that arose in the early middle ages.
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?
#44Swedish has du (singular) and ni (plural). Prior to the "du-reform" in the late 1960's however, ni was also used as a formal singular form, but for the last 40 or so years the formal form has been dropped, leaving ni for plural only. In fact many older people would find it mildly insulting to be addressed singular ni today.
Of course there are a few exceptions, most notably when addressing members of the royal family. If you ever get to speak with one of them, the correct way is to address them by title, in third person ("would her majesty like fries with that?").
Around 8 or 10 years ago I started to notice a trend, particularly among younger people (in their late teens maybe), typically working in shops and cafes, who started once again to use singular ni with customers, but I haven't lived in Sweden for several years now and don't know if that's continued. I hope not!
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?
#45This relates well to one of the fascinating things I realized while learning German: the fact that so many English and German words and sounds have phonetic connections, coming from their common Germanic ancestry. For example, the letter "d" in German corresponding to "th" in English: die/der/das -> the drei -> three Donner -> thunder Ding -> thing daher -> therefore and, most relevant to this discussion: du -> thou…
Du isn't formal though?
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?
#46This relates well to one of the fascinating things I realized while learning German: the fact that so many English and German words and sounds have phonetic connections, coming from their common Germanic ancestry. For example, the letter "d" in German corresponding to "th" in English: die/der/das -> the drei -> three Donner -> thunder Ding -> thing daher -> therefore and, most relevant to this discussion: du -> thou…
Du isn't formal though?
Right, and neither is thou.
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?
#47This relates well to one of the fascinating things I realized while learning German: the fact that so many English and German words and sounds have phonetic connections, coming from their common Germanic ancestry. For example, the letter "d" in German corresponding to "th" in English: die/der/das -> the drei -> three Donner -> thunder Ding -> thing daher -> therefore and, most relevant to this discussion: du -> thou…
This is the result of the High German Consonant Shift [1]. English - many accents, at least - retain the dental fricatives (th-sounds) that were shifted to alveolar stops (d and t sounds) in High German. Dental fricatives are relatively rare sounds among the world's languages. Icelandic and European Spanish are the only languages I can think of that have dental fricative phonemes.
[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_German_consonant_shift
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?
#48Regarding the comment on the Chinese character 您 at the bottom of that page: it's still very much in use (formal letters, ceremony speeches, etc).
I can't add a reply though, because apparently I need 50 reputation. I can't upvote, because I need 10 reputation. You know what, StackExchange? I'll just stay away from your site with all the barriers to participation that you throw up.
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?
#49This makes me want to see a poll HN to see how many have read any amount of The KJV, and how much they've read.
Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?
#50The original asker made a minor error. Chinese isn't in the Proto-Indo-European language family. It is in the Sino-Tibetan family.