Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?

english.stackexchange.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 200 posts

Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?

#31

Post by groovy2shoes »

fsck--off wrote: post #28

Second person used to be: Singular----|----Plural Thou Ye, You Thee You Thine Yours Thy Your Which correspond to the nominative, objective, and possessive cases accordingly. By the way, the "Ye" is not related to the "Ye" in store signs that say "Ye Olde...". Y was sometimes used by typographers instead of the Old English letter Þ(Thorn), which makes a "Th" sound, so those store signs should be pronounced as " The Ol…

"Y'all" is a contraction of "you all" [1], but let's not forget about "you guys" or "yous guys".

[1] http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=y%27all

Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?

#32

Post by cesarbs »

rcruzeiro wrote: post #14

In Portuguese and German there are still the formal and informal cases: Formal : Você, Informal: Tu The same thing in German: Formal : Sie, Informal: Du I am not a linguistics guy but I think that Thou, Du, Tu have all the same origin as they sound so similar.

But in the south of Brazil (RS) we just address everyone as "tu" :) Some Brazilians from other states seem to find that rude sometimes.

Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?

#33

Post by groovy2shoes »

bunderbunder wrote: post #29
vacri wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It confused me when I asked a native Texan something about what I should do next and she responded with "y'all could [foo]". But there's only one of me? I suppose that technically I am the 'all' of the 'you' that is being addressed?

In some regional vernaculars, "y'all" is singular and "all y'all" is plural.

Interesting. Here in North Carolina, "y'all" is generally plural, whereas "all y'all" is also plural but more emphatic, as in "I really do mean every last one of you", or sometimes simply to indicate a stronger emotional content, especially when angry.

Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?

#34

Post by jychang »

cobralibre wrote: post #15
jjoe wrote: post #3

We're very happy with y'all here in Texas.

Fellow Texan here. "Y'all" is plural, but certainly not formal. I hasten to add that "y'all" is clearly not used exclusively by Texans.

Y'all is singular. "All y'all" is plural.

Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?

#35

Post by tikwidd »

fsck--off wrote: post #28

Second person used to be: Singular----|----Plural Thou Ye, You Thee You Thine Yours Thy Your Which correspond to the nominative, objective, and possessive cases accordingly. By the way, the "Ye" is not related to the "Ye" in store signs that say "Ye Olde...". Y was sometimes used by typographers instead of the Old English letter Þ(Thorn), which makes a "Th" sound, so those store signs should be pronounced as " The Ol…

A couple of other English pronoun tidbits:

- The third person plural set (they, their, them) was borrowed from Scandinavian (it's pretty uncommon for languages to borrow 'core' vocabulary such as pronouns).

- Old English (Anglo-Saxon) also had dual forms of the pronoun. Those were lost by Chaucer's time though. Not sure if they are reflexes of early PIE dual forms or a more recent development from Proto-Germanic.

[Sara Malton] [1] has some interesting ideas about how the you/thee distinction developed in the semantic dimensions of power as well as familiarity in Early Modern English.

There are many new 2p. plural forms developing in English that vary regionally and socially, e.g y'all, you guys, yous, you'uns (-> yinz), all y'all.

[1]: http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~cpercy/courses/6361Malton.ht...

Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?

#36

Post by thro2 »

bunderbunder wrote: post #29
vacri wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It confused me when I asked a native Texan something about what I should do next and she responded with "y'all could [foo]". But there's only one of me? I suppose that technically I am the 'all' of the 'you' that is being addressed?

In some regional vernaculars, "y'all" is singular and "all y'all" is plural.

Sounds like a slippery slope.

Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?

#37

Post by friendzis »

In languages I know formal version of "you" (local version of singular second person) is plural form of the same word. Historical explanation is rather simple. Remember history lessons: kings used to say "we, the king, think..." meaning that the king is a representative of some group. Due to this language quirk when addressing such a person formally you actually address whole group the person represents, hence the plural form of "you". In informal environment one usually addresses the same person directly, hence the singular form being not so much formal. Simple as that :)

Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?

#38

Post by bane »

jychang wrote: post #34
cobralibre wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow Texan here. "Y'all" is plural, but certainly not formal. I hasten to add that "y'all" is clearly not used exclusively by Texans.

Y'all is singular. "All y'all" is plural.

If the group being spoken to is exceptionally large, or it's clearly a group made of smaller groups (a group of groups), in some places "Alls y'all" is used. It's fascinating to note it when you hear it.

edit also, if there's a possessive it gets pretty crazy, for example a tour guide, assembling several groups for a tour might say "Let's get together for alls y'all's tour".

Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?

#39

Post by moskie »

This relates well to one of the fascinating things I realized while learning German: the fact that so many English and German words and sounds have phonetic connections, coming from their common Germanic ancestry.

For example, the letter "d" in German corresponding to "th" in English:

  die/der/das -> the
  drei -> three
  Donner -> thunder
  Ding -> thing
  daher -> therefore
and, most relevant to this discussion:

  du -> thou
I'm sure this connection can be better explained than I'm able to, but it was a mini-epiphany for me while studying the language.

Re: Did English ever have a formal version of “you”?

#40

Post by kendalk »

jychang wrote: post #34
cobralibre wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow Texan here. "Y'all" is plural, but certainly not formal. I hasten to add that "y'all" is clearly not used exclusively by Texans.

Y'all is singular. "All y'all" is plural.

Oklahoman here. We say "y'all" as plural. We also say "you all."
Post reply on HN