Does this not apply anymore? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=392347
Though buried in the pile, I think more people need to notice this link.
Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.
51–60 of 117 posts
Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Thoughtful comments that are factually wrong should be downvoted." Maybe. Maybe not. But one thing's for sure. It you think something is "factually wrong", your reply provides much more feedback than a vote. I'd like to think that judgment based upon data is what separates hackers from posers. Let's see that data please.
Let me pose a hypothetical: I'm reading HN while I'm waiting for a particularly long compile or backup or whatever. I've got about 5 minutes and about 4 minutes in, I find a comment that honestly and eloquently makes a claim based on the perceived fact that the world is flat. This comment is highly rated. Should I: 1) Withhold my down-vote because I don't have time to explain it? 2) Withhold my down-vote unless someo…
"...eloquently makes a claim based on the perceived fact that the world is flat."
You should do what feels right to you.
What would I do? Probably click reply and challenge my fellow hackers with something like, "Who you gonna listen to, Galileo or Thomas Friedman?"
Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Thoughtful comments that are factually wrong should be downvoted." Maybe. Maybe not. But one thing's for sure. It you think something is "factually wrong", your reply provides much more feedback than a vote. I'd like to think that judgment based upon data is what separates hackers from posers. Let's see that data please.
Let me pose a hypothetical: I'm reading HN while I'm waiting for a particularly long compile or backup or whatever. I've got about 5 minutes and about 4 minutes in, I find a comment that honestly and eloquently makes a claim based on the perceived fact that the world is flat. This comment is highly rated. Should I: 1) Withhold my down-vote because I don't have time to explain it? 2) Withhold my down-vote unless someo…
This hypothetical "factually wrong" dilemma is a red herring. The real issue is disagreement, not factual correction. Much more often the case is that someone has written a thoughtful, honest comment based on some worldview that is very different from your own. In that scenario you should not downvote at all. Rather, take the time to explain your own worldview or just move on.
Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Thoughtful comments that are factually wrong should be downvoted." Maybe. Maybe not. But one thing's for sure. It you think something is "factually wrong", your reply provides much more feedback than a vote. I'd like to think that judgment based upon data is what separates hackers from posers. Let's see that data please.
Let me pose a hypothetical: I'm reading HN while I'm waiting for a particularly long compile or backup or whatever. I've got about 5 minutes and about 4 minutes in, I find a comment that honestly and eloquently makes a claim based on the perceived fact that the world is flat. This comment is highly rated. Should I: 1) Withhold my down-vote because I don't have time to explain it? 2) Withhold my down-vote unless someo…
What I would do personally:
if score Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.
#55Thoughtful comments that are factually wrong should be downvoted. Seriously. If your code doesn't compile, the compiler doesn't care how much effort it took you to write it...
Comments that are factually wrong should go to 0 and no lower!
Below 0 is only for spam and things like "Me too".
Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.
#56As someone who has received a string of downvoted commented recently (admittedly they were warranted given the nature of some of them) I really don't see the problem. Someone disagrees with you and does the initial downvoting, then groupthink kicks in and your score hits the floor. It's a simple fact of life in social media sites (it occurs on many sites with differing communities), this is why PG put in the -8 limit…
I kind of see myself as the balancer. I tend to actually read a downvoted comment to see if it was worthy (and vote it up) or see a highly upvoted comment and possibly vote it down if it's just getting upvoted because it puts forward a popular view (e.g. Microsoft is evil) rather than something of value.
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Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.
#57As someone who has received a string of downvoted commented recently (admittedly they were warranted given the nature of some of them) I really don't see the problem. Someone disagrees with you and does the initial downvoting, then groupthink kicks in and your score hits the floor. It's a simple fact of life in social media sites (it occurs on many sites with differing communities), this is why PG put in the -8 limit…
Groupthink is a silly thing. Besides, if your comment gets downvoted, it becomes gray and much harder to read. It's unfortunate if thoughtful comments get "hidden" by downvotes.
I usually check out grayed out comments on the posts I read; I have yet to see one that was "thoughtful". Maybe on posts I don't bother to read, because the topic doesn't particularly interest me, there are lots of thoughtful comments downvoted, but I haven't seen it happening.
Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let me pose a hypothetical: I'm reading HN while I'm waiting for a particularly long compile or backup or whatever. I've got about 5 minutes and about 4 minutes in, I find a comment that honestly and eloquently makes a claim based on the perceived fact that the world is flat. This comment is highly rated. Should I: 1) Withhold my down-vote because I don't have time to explain it? 2) Withhold my down-vote unless someo…
This hypothetical "factually wrong" dilemma is a red herring. The real issue is disagreement, not factual correction. Much more often the case is that someone has written a thoughtful, honest comment based on some worldview that is very different from your own. In that scenario you should not downvote at all. Rather, take the time to explain your own worldview or just move on.
The "factually wrong dilemma" is in no way a red herring. It's actually precisely the point I was responding to in the grandparent post. Down-voting based on opinion is something else entirely. Of course, people will confuse opinion and fact sometimes, and I would encourage people to be skeptical of themselves on delineating the two, but that doesn't invalidate the idea that people can say things that are factually wrong.
Yes, if someone says something that is factually correct (or at least not incorrect) based on a different world-view, then I agree, don't vote them down. If they say something that is factually incorrect but accepted in their worldview, I don't know that that changes what I was saying before.
Edit: you know, it's usually my policy not to comment on how comments have been modded, but I do find it hilarious that in this discussion, someone's down-voted this comment (at the time of this edit) without replying.
Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Disagreed. If downvoting meant "you are wrong", then it would be kinda like a black-hole if it weren't accompained by a reply, because the obvious follow-up question "why is that wrong?" would go un-answered, and thus nobody learns. Since learning is what we are here for, please correct "factually wrong" posts with a reply, not with a downvote. It seems more correct to downvote those posts or replies that do not foll…
'If downvoting meant "you are wrong", then it would be kinda like a black-hole if it weren't accompained by a reply, because the obvious follow-up question "why is that wrong?" would go un-answered, and thus nobody learns.' On Reddit, since they added in the "suppress entire thread once the parent goes below -4", yes. On HN, which never suppresses the thread, no. I for one occasionally check even the -8 posts, though…
On reddit when things go to -8 it's for one reason only: They are pro religion, or pro israel, or conservative. (OK, that's 3, but it's basically the same thing.)
On reddit stupid stuff usually gets a plus vote, and people express agree/disagree via votes.
This is NOT the way HN is run, and people coming here from reddit have a hard time adjusting. So we need threads like this approximately monthly.
Maybe PG can require all new members to read some kind of etiquette guide (with a quiz).
Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let me pose a hypothetical: I'm reading HN while I'm waiting for a particularly long compile or backup or whatever. I've got about 5 minutes and about 4 minutes in, I find a comment that honestly and eloquently makes a claim based on the perceived fact that the world is flat. This comment is highly rated. Should I: 1) Withhold my down-vote because I don't have time to explain it? 2) Withhold my down-vote unless someo…
What I would do personally: if score But of course it's a judgment call. If it seems like the person is intentionally trolling, then by all means, go negative. If the person is just misinformed, zero is a sufficient slap on the wrist that hopefully says "make sure you know what you are talking about next time", and a reply makes it obvious why it got downvoted.
For me, it's:
if score