Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with. • Hacker News Board

Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.

#11

Post by Quarrelsome » Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 1:17 PM UTC

Kudos is not about etiquette it's about what motivates people to upvote or downvote and this differs from person to person.

Personally I value truth, humour and interesting information. You will note that etiquette isn't part of my up/down voting practice. Other people have different rules.

Kudos is a reflection of the community which means that the community is (if we follow your theory) slightly rude. I don't have a problem with this. I do however have a problem with NOT downvoting thoughtful comments I disagree with. I think it's rude to tell people that they should think like you. I would downvote you for this but etiquette isn't part of my kudos practice and I think this discussion is interesting.

Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.

#12

Post by swoodtke » Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 1:17 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #5

Thoughtful comments that are factually wrong should be downvoted. Seriously. If your code doesn't compile, the compiler doesn't care how much effort it took you to write it...

To continue with your analogy, I would assume most people would be very irritated with a compiler which only reported that you made an error but didn't give you any context into where the error occurred.

Most compilers make a large effort to give you good error messages with file names and line numbers so you can correct your mistake.

Downvoting is like reporting an error with no context: not very useful in determining what is wrong with the comment.

Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.

#13

Post by froo » Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 1:20 PM UTC

As someone who has received a string of downvoted commented recently (admittedly they were warranted given the nature of some of them) I really don't see the problem.

Someone disagrees with you and does the initial downvoting, then groupthink kicks in and your score hits the floor.

It's a simple fact of life in social media sites (it occurs on many sites with differing communities), this is why PG put in the -8 limit, to combat the detrimental effect of this kind of groupthink.

Honestly, deal with it, it's just online Karma, a simple numerical value... what effect does it really have after you've unlocked various features on HN.

Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.

#14

Post by indiejade » Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 1:20 PM UTC

It would be very interesting to see a list of the top 50 or so downmodding offenders next to a list of their "karma score" (or whatever it's called here). Even anonymous statistics would be interesting. Some people are just mean because they can be.

Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.

#15

Post by shizcakes » Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 1:24 PM UTC

Ultimately, it's a culture thing. I've been here for the better part of a year, and I've noticed that comments which I feel are worth lots of merit (I wrote a script that makes your life noticeably better! here!) and ones of less merit (It's the same as a link 30 pixels away!) are voted to almost the same karma. This was not always the case - historically, things seemed to be voted far more consistently.

The reason for this, as I ponder it in my head, might be that the threshold for downvoting on comments is too low relative to the amount of people granted that power. In my sole opinion, as the number of people able to downvote goes up, the worth of the comment voting system goes down.

Perhaps, instead - a small economy based upon earning karma with good comments, and spending it when you make negative votes - might be a good idea.

Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.

#16

Post by ghiotion » Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 1:27 PM UTC

indiejade wrote: post #14

It would be very interesting to see a list of the top 50 or so downmodding offenders next to a list of their "karma score" (or whatever it's called here). Even anonymous statistics would be interesting. Some people are just mean because they can be.

I'll second this with one minor caveat. They're not necessarily "downmodding offenders" until proven as such by the data you're requesting. They're just the top 50 downvoters.

Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.

#17

Post by gaius » Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 1:31 PM UTC

ghiotion wrote: post #16

indiejade wrote: post #14

It would be very interesting to see a list of the top 50 or so downmodding offenders next to a list of their "karma score" (or whatever it's called here). Even anonymous statistics would be interesting. Some people are just mean because they can be.

I'll second this with one minor caveat. They're not necessarily "downmodding offenders" until proven as such by the data you're requesting. They're just the top 50 downvoters.

That data's not meaningful without also considering upvotes - they could just be prolific modders.

Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.

#18

Post by scott_s » Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 1:31 PM UTC

Quarrelsome wrote: post #11

Kudos is not about etiquette it's about what motivates people to upvote or downvote and this differs from person to person. Personally I value truth, humour and interesting information. You will note that etiquette isn't part of my up/down voting practice. Other people have different rules. Kudos is a reflection of the community which means that the community is (if we follow your theory) slightly rude. I don't have…

The purpose of karma on HN is to promote civil discussion, not to show agreement or disagreement. Hence, downmodding comments that you disagree with, yet are still valid, runs counter to the system's intended use.

Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.

#19

Post by alexk7 » Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 1:35 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #5

Thoughtful comments that are factually wrong should be downvoted. Seriously. If your code doesn't compile, the compiler doesn't care how much effort it took you to write it...

I disagree. Just adding a comment to explain exactly what is factually wrong is a much better way to continue the conversation. Downvotes should be reserved for vulgar, rude, or off-topic comments.

Re: Dear YC: Please stop downvoting thoughtful comments you disagree with.

#20

Post by wynand » Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 1:36 PM UTC

froo wrote: post #13

As someone who has received a string of downvoted commented recently (admittedly they were warranted given the nature of some of them) I really don't see the problem. Someone disagrees with you and does the initial downvoting, then groupthink kicks in and your score hits the floor. It's a simple fact of life in social media sites (it occurs on many sites with differing communities), this is why PG put in the -8 limit…

I worry that when so many comments have negative votes, readers will be more inclined to downvote future comments.

While I agree with you that it's really human nature, I still think it needs to be discouraged, if only to keep HN the kind of place where debate is encouraged.