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Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

ponzi.io

251–260 of 306 posts

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#251
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like fiat.

Just like Social Security, really.

Social Security isn't a vehicle that attempts to return your principle + interest. Regardless of how many contributors there are, SS benefits would pay out at a % of the target if it could not cover the complete benefit. Ponzi schemes have no such provisions and are not transparent about it.

I suppose they are similar in that neither are actual investment vehicles, despite what many contributors tend to think.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#252
post #42

I'm trying to work out if this is some grand statement on the similarities of Bitcoin to a Ponzi scheme in the way it's deflationary, or just a quick way for someone to make a few BTC. Maybe it's designed as a way to teach people about Ponzi schemes? Got to say, I pity the person who eventually deposits too much money at once, causing the payments to pause while they build up enough to cover his large deposit, in tur…

IMO, this was built to demonstrate one of the unique characteristics of Bitcoin. The ability to track transactions linked to addresses not owned by you, in this case, lets all participants see in realtime whether the owners are living up to their promises. Had Bernie Madoff used Bitcoin, his reign would have been over in a few minutes.

Minutes? Really? Because that's how most people measure their investments. The only way you could see if 'he was living up to his promises' was if he just speculated on more bitcoins, which would be dumb.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#253
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New address: 1PonziAwQpnfj15Br4YFJHygWtd5LQKgN1 (without 1Ponzi in the wallet is not legit).

Interesting... This may be the first time someone's tried to use HN as a platform for phishing.

There is a spammer in the chat room spamming a new address too.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean that fiat will continue to work as long as people believe in it. Social security, now that I think about it, does sound much like a Ponzi scheme.

Anyone who doubts that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme should try starting a similar one themselves, and see how it goes.

It is called an annuity. It is one of the more basic forms of insurance, offered widely since forever by more or less everyone.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#255
post #42

I'm trying to work out if this is some grand statement on the similarities of Bitcoin to a Ponzi scheme in the way it's deflationary, or just a quick way for someone to make a few BTC. Maybe it's designed as a way to teach people about Ponzi schemes? Got to say, I pity the person who eventually deposits too much money at once, causing the payments to pause while they build up enough to cover his large deposit, in tur…

IMO, this was built to demonstrate one of the unique characteristics of Bitcoin. The ability to track transactions linked to addresses not owned by you, in this case, lets all participants see in realtime whether the owners are living up to their promises. Had Bernie Madoff used Bitcoin, his reign would have been over in a few minutes.

This transaction is where everything went wrong. I think after the shutdown they tried to start paying out the largest investors manually and missed a decimal place:

1 BTC In and 10 BTC back https://blockchain.info/address/1CeGvbrAuLJYyKxX7T2KD3358dWo...

Someone made 10x their money.

Ponzi.io (1ponziUjuCVdB167ZmTWH48AURW1vE64q) --> Ponzi.io Change (14ji9KmegNHhTchf4ftkt3J1ywmijGjd6M) --> Big Winner (1CeGvbrAuLJYyKxX7T2KD3358dWoLmAohR)

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#257

No one finds this repulsive? People will lose money to this. Yes, they are dumb, yes it is obvious. But those who participate are still morally complicit. Enabling others who suffer from serious issues (addiction, gambling) seems like a pretty shitty thing to do.

Just because your expected return is negative doesn't mean it's dumb to partake in it. Nor is the outcome obvious. The site wasn't created for the purpose of hooking in gambling addicts, so I see no problem with it. Also, you have no evidence that an explicit bitcoin ponzi scheme draws in gamblers who put in more money than they can afford to lose.

Things created for one intent often have unintended side effects.

And you are right, I don't have any hard data or evidence off the top my head. I have read many accounts about gambling in general though. It can be quite insidious. Putting money into the scheme from the OP is virtually the same thing as gambling. If the site actually ran for any decent length of time, I think it is extremely likely that some people who are struggling financially would have made bets on this site that they would then later regret. I also doubt you have evidence that implies otherwise ;)

Personally, I think that facilitating such events is morally dubious. I understand that not everyone shares this view.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#258

No one finds this repulsive? People will lose money to this. Yes, they are dumb, yes it is obvious. But those who participate are still morally complicit. Enabling others who suffer from serious issues (addiction, gambling) seems like a pretty shitty thing to do.

How so? No one is being deceived. Everyone who participates does so of their own volition. Is individual volition repulsive? Are they really dumb? Is the guy in the middle of the scheme who makes out with a profit dumb? There's known risk - some will decide they'll risk it. It may not be wise (I wouldn't participate, myself), but I wouldn't be so bold as to assume they're dumb. > But those who participate are still m…

Humans are not robots, we make mistakes and often do things that we later regret. I don't have the concept of morality worked out perfectly. However, it feels wrong to influence people in a way that increases the frequency of said regretful events, especially when potentially large sums of money are involved. It looks like over 200k went through the site before it shut down? Nothing to sneeze at.

You are right, there is a distinction to be made between those who created the site, and those throw money at it.

Some who throw money at the site are well off and are essentially using the scheme as entertainment. They likely would not be too upset if the money didn't come back. One could make the argument that these people are morally entangled to a degree, as they increase the volume of funds flowing through the site, which draws in additional people, and makes it more likely that someone who actually has financial or gambling problems is tempted to bet on the site. However, this is argument is somewhat weaker than the one against the actual creators of the scheme.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#259
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, this was built to demonstrate one of the unique characteristics of Bitcoin. The ability to track transactions linked to addresses not owned by you, in this case, lets all participants see in realtime whether the owners are living up to their promises. Had Bernie Madoff used Bitcoin, his reign would have been over in a few minutes.

Minutes? Really? Because that's how most people measure their investments. The only way you could see if 'he was living up to his promises' was if he just speculated on more bitcoins, which would be dumb.

The point was that you could see where the money was going. If there were a Bitcoin based stock exchange and it published its addresses for stock purchases, when money from pooled funds started going to addresses outside of those known addresses, people would immediately know that the money has gone somewhere it shouldn't have.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#260
post #45

This would be cooler with one of those other cryptocurrencies that feature a Turing-complete scripting language: the code of the scheme could be public and run in the blockchain so that everyone would know the system is fair.

Which cryptocurrencies have such a feature?

There's http://www.ethereum.org/ethereum.html but I'm sure there are others.
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