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Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

ponzi.io

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Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#81

Post by gburt »

mmaunder wrote: post #66

snip Ponzi Scheme Enforcement Actions Curtailing Ponzi schemes and holding those responsible for these scams accountable is a vital component of the SEC's enforcement program. Since fiscal year 2010, the SEC has brought more than 100 enforcement actions against nearly 200 individuals and 250 entities for carrying out Ponzi schemes.1 In these actions, more than 65 individuals have been barred from working in the secur…

   A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the 
   payment of purported returns to existing investors from 
   funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme 
   organizers often solicit new investors by promising to 
   invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high
   returns with little or no risk. With little or no 
   legitimate earnings, Ponzi schemes require a constant flow
   of money from new investors to continue. Ponzi schemes 
   inevitably collapse, most often when it becomes difficult
   to recruit new investors or when a large number of 
   investors ask for their funds to be returned.
Surely this isn't an "investment fraud" if it is completely honest about how it works. I wouldn't count on the SEC being reasonable about that though.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#82

Post by powera »

gburt wrote: post #81
mmaunder wrote: post #66

snip Ponzi Scheme Enforcement Actions Curtailing Ponzi schemes and holding those responsible for these scams accountable is a vital component of the SEC's enforcement program. Since fiscal year 2010, the SEC has brought more than 100 enforcement actions against nearly 200 individuals and 250 entities for carrying out Ponzi schemes.1 In these actions, more than 65 individuals have been barred from working in the secur…

A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk. With little or no legitimate earnings, Ponzi schemes require a constant flow of money from new investors to continue.…

But it's not completely honest. The FAQ says "Every time you send money to the Ponzi address, you'll get back 1.2x what you put in." But by the nature of these scheme, the last 15% of people won't get their money back.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#83

Post by kokey »

I've always been fascinated by ponzi schemes, or other pyramid and chain structures. Most of the legislation against it that I've looked at, attacks it from a deception angle. So, basically, if it's honest about what it is and your chances are to make or not make money from it, it may be within the law of many countries. I have never looked at it from a cross border legal perspective, that might make it even more interesting.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#84

Post by ryanjshaw »

mmaunder wrote: post #66

snip Ponzi Scheme Enforcement Actions Curtailing Ponzi schemes and holding those responsible for these scams accountable is a vital component of the SEC's enforcement program. Since fiscal year 2010, the SEC has brought more than 100 enforcement actions against nearly 200 individuals and 250 entities for carrying out Ponzi schemes.1 In these actions, more than 65 individuals have been barred from working in the secur…

Any lawyers here want to give an opinion on whether - from a legal perspective - this is a Ponzi scheme or a gambling site? And if it's a Ponzi scheme, are the people participating complicit in a crime?

Just because it calls itself a Ponzi scheme doesn't make it one - is it fraud when the scheme is openly labelled as such? OTOH I can see some people arguing it's not that clear that the scheme is unsustainable without further thought, research, or existing knowledge of pyramid schemes, and that it entails an unstated high element of risk, so in that sense it may be misleading.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#85

Post by BlackDeath3 »

powera wrote: post #82
gburt wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk. With little or no legitimate earnings, Ponzi schemes require a constant flow of money from new investors to continue.…

But it's not completely honest. The FAQ says "Every time you send money to the Ponzi address, you'll get back 1.2x what you put in." But by the nature of these scheme, the last 15% of people won't get their money back.

It also not only plainly labels itself a Ponzi scheme, but explains that you'll only get a return if others invest after you.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#86

Post by ilya89 »

WWKong wrote: post #71
thrush wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you sure 20% profit is the right number? Imagine two people use it, and they both pay 1 BTC. Time | Event 1 | First person pays 1 BTC 2 | Second person pays 1 BTC 2 | First person gets paid 1.2 BTC The creator makes .8 BTC in this case. Pretty solid return if you ask me.

Keep going. Then a third person joins. Second gets 1.2. Creator now has only 0.6. Then a fourth one joins…

my thought process is: one large BTC pool. all transactions are feed into the pool. the order of the deposits dictate priority of withdrawal. Owner does not skim the transactions, only makes a large initial deposit and then markets the site like crazy. Big assumption here is that he is running an "honest" ponzi operation.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#87

Post by hackinthebochs »

powera wrote: post #75
GeneralMayhem wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's beyond blatant; it's unabashed and self-aware. That's interesting - who would make such a thing? Who would pay into it? Will it still work even when people know what it is?

"Every time you send money to the Ponzi address, you'll get back 1.2x what you put in." - honestly, it sounds like a normal Ponzi scheme to me. It's probably targeting people who don't realize that Ponzi schemes by their nature always end up as scams. "All of our activity is is open and public on the blockchain. It's impossible for us to cheat anyone out of their payout without everyone knowing." - completely ignores…

It's not a scam any more than gambling is. Scams are things that appear to be one thing but are another. This is not that.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#88

Post by dclara »

tobz wrote: post #68
dclara wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

scammed: ponzi is a SCAM I copy-pasted from the site. BTW, any pyramid scheme is bad and should be prohibited, right? But the site is cool though.

I wouldn't recommend a pyramid schema. You'll run into migration problems down the road. Better to keep it flat.

I guess we are talking about difference things.

Sorry, I meant Pyramid scheme: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

But regarding pyramid schema, you mean hierarchical structure, right? I have the same concern, but flat tagging does not help much as we can observe from many sites.

Let people browsing from multiple levels of the category is fun. The rule of thumb is: don't expect perfect structure and don't need to have everybody agree on that. Ad hoc hierarchy should be good enough like Amazon product list. Also keep it away from people who don't need to browse it.

Re: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme

#90

Post by dror »

This is almost perfect except for not including a warning:

"Warning, if people stop depositing money, you won't get 120% back, and you could lose all your money."

Also, it seems like the person running the site is not taking a cut. If that's right, he's not making a profit, and he's less likely to get in trouble when things collapse.

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