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Google refuses to pay French privacy fine in a battle of company versus country

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Re: Google refuses to pay French privacy fine in a battle of company versus country

#21

Post by buro9 »

finch_ wrote: post #14
chris_wot wrote: post #10

Well this isn't going to go well for Google. At least I sure hope it doesn't. When corporations trump nation-states, we're all screwed.

So then I suppose Google should have just given in to the Chinese government's demands for censorship, or the US government's demands for access to private data?

Yes.

I don't agree with either of those things, but there is a point at which globalisation comes into conflict with sovereign nations.

The status of a company is one that is granted to it by a sovereign country, and sovereign countries establish through their legal and government systems how companies can act within their borders.

Once you're there... yes, Google should comply to any legal request. And in fact, they do... as requests for data issued under legal order are in fact complied with.

Companies are not above the law (and laws tend to exist at country level or through treaty across many countries). And if the law of a country says pay, then Google need to pay unless another law can trump it and says not to pay.

There's no two ways about it, companies must comply with the laws of whatever land they operate in.

Re: Google refuses to pay French privacy fine in a battle of company versus country

#22

Post by RBerenguel »

p4bl0 wrote: post #18
RBerenguel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American billion or European billion? In this case I think the distinction is important (I guess it's the first case... the latter would be... big, very big, hugely, mindbogglingly big)

Like I said, 1 billion €, so a "European billion". Yes it is a lot of money. But even more so is the amount of money that Google earned in France and managed not to declare to the fisc (the French tax administration).

Sure, it's almost the definition of tax (it should be less than the amount earned.) I hope they pay, it's not like we are floating in money in Europe currently.

Re: Google refuses to pay French privacy fine in a battle of company versus country

#23

Post by chris_wot »

finch_ wrote: post #14
chris_wot wrote: post #10

Well this isn't going to go well for Google. At least I sure hope it doesn't. When corporations trump nation-states, we're all screwed.

So then I suppose Google should have just given in to the Chinese government's demands for censorship, or the US government's demands for access to private data?

No. They should stop trading in such countries if they don't like the laws.

Re: Google refuses to pay French privacy fine in a battle of company versus country

#24

Post by masklinn »

skj wrote: post #19
renekooi wrote: post #13

> accepting the fine would have also involved making a public admission of guilt (...) and the company feels this would have "irreparably damaged" its reputation. It probably would've. But if they don't want that loss of reputation, perhaps they should have followed the appropriate laws in the first place? Seems like this is kind of the point of a punishment.

I think the feeling is that the "appropriate" laws were not, in fact, appropriate.

Of course Google's feeling is that they should be able to do whatever they want with user's data and shouldn't have to tell anybody anything, and thus they believe privacy and data protection regimes are inappropriate.

Re: Google refuses to pay French privacy fine in a battle of company versus country

#26

Post by ikusalic »

RBerenguel wrote: post #15
p4bl0 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This time, yes, because it's about privacy and the CNIL can't do much more than 150,000€. But France also asks Google for 1 billion € of unpaid taxes over the last years, and this time I guess they will really try to avoid paying (hopefully they won't be able to, but we'll see).

American billion or European billion? In this case I think the distinction is important (I guess it's the first case... the latter would be... big, very big, hugely, mindbogglingly big)

Just to clarify: in continental Europe and USA billion means different number. [0]

I'd guess USA billion, as it's about taxes and taxes can't be bigger than what Google is worth...

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales

Re: Google refuses to pay French privacy fine in a battle of company versus country

#27

Post by serge2k »

buro9 wrote: post #21
finch_ wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then I suppose Google should have just given in to the Chinese government's demands for censorship, or the US government's demands for access to private data?

Yes. I don't agree with either of those things, but there is a point at which globalisation comes into conflict with sovereign nations. The status of a company is one that is granted to it by a sovereign country, and sovereign countries establish through their legal and government systems how companies can act within their borders. Once you're there... yes, Google should comply to any legal request. And in fact, they…

Google has every right to present their argument to a court. This is how law works.

Re: Google refuses to pay French privacy fine in a battle of company versus country

#29

Post by serge2k »

p4bl0 wrote: post #8
neverminder wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article it's not about the money, it's about the publicly displayed apology that google is uncomfortable with.

The CE also decided that Google have to go with that. They said that anyway it's okay for Google to say that they do not agree with the decision and that they are waiting for the final decision of the "juge de fond"¹, alongside with the CNIL message (the apology) they have to display, so it won't be such a problem for there reputation. The thing to know is that, since it is very difficult to quantify how much damage…

That's unfortunate, their reputations should be that of a company that is trying to get as much personal info as possible.

Re: Google refuses to pay French privacy fine in a battle of company versus country

#30

Post by p4bl0 »

mjburgess wrote: post #20
route66 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, (US) corporations will be able to sue (EU) states soon when they don't like their laws [1] . Line of argumentation: "Europe has an unreasonably high standard [in it's protective laws], and not one based on science" [2] [1] http://www.euractiv.com/specialreport-eu-us-trade-talks/liti... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcoue-mlQxw&t=58

Even so, this issue has nothing to do with a corp suiting a state. Any one can sue a state if its under some larger (eg. federal) umbrella. Google are suing France because they conform to EU Law rather than French law, and would like European courts to resolve the issue.

From what I have understood they can't do that: they have no legal reasons to take the case to European court.
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