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Google shows support for LGBT Olympians

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Re: Google shows support for LGBT Olympians

#131

Post by Crito »

osipov wrote: post #115
mkr-hn wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the executive summary. It's great that Russia is making legal progress, and I mean that, but that doesn't change the situation on the ground where people are being beaten and arrested.

The paper also talks about statistics on how often gay people are beaten in Russia. United States is far worse in this respect. Further United States has a greater incarceration rate for gays than Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

Fucking hell, the countries are even the same here...

Re: Google shows support for LGBT Olympians

#132

Post by JulianMorrison »

osipov wrote: post #108
aray wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utah, while prohibiting gay marriage, nevertheless still let gay people meet (gatherings), distribute information, and speak publicly about the topic.

Russia allows these things too except for the part of getting minors involved. EDIT: The Wikipedia article is full of hedging on this topic, e.g. - "According to _some commentators_..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Bans_on_.... - "Under the statute it is _effectively illegal_", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#National_... Since when did journalists become legal scholars? Shoul…

Some minors are gay. Now they are criminalized for even talking about themselves. See the recent example (which they backed off from due to international pressure)[1]. This is an immensely oppressive law, it needs to end immediately, and defending it is unconscionable.

[1] http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/02/06/russia-punishment-halte...

Re: Google shows support for LGBT Olympians

#133

Post by JulianMorrison »

devilshaircut wrote: post #101
pyrocat wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LGB at least. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BKgdvjmFK4c/TwN5PxXVH1I/AAAAAAAAAr...

Just LG I think many people would say, actually. I've come to the point where I think the acronym is silly. I think right now we are up to "LGBTQIAPK". I may be a little out of date on that. The fact is, some of the issues between the groups in the acronym are shared and some aren't. At one point in time, banding together for them was probably useful if not necessary. Today I think each group would be better going it…

Our shared problem is patriarchy and gender roles. "Why would a man take the inferior role" is behind phobia of gay men and trans women. "Don't let a woman get out of her place, as a sex object for men" is behind phobia of lesbians and trans men. Banding together makes sense.

Re: Google shows support for LGBT Olympians

#134

Post by mlvljr »

Lazare wrote: post #129
osipov wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia allows these things too except for the part of getting minors involved. EDIT: The Wikipedia article is full of hedging on this topic, e.g. - "According to _some commentators_..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Bans_on_.... - "Under the statute it is _effectively illegal_", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#National_... Since when did journalists become legal scholars? Shoul…

You're getting a lot of downvotes, but I see most people aren't bothering to explain your error to you. Let me help: We're concerned with the amount of oppression actually occurring in Russia, and with the actual life of actual gay men and women in Russia. Your comments and links focus on the laws, but it is very possible to pass a wonderful sounding law and then ignore it in practice. In fact, Russia's predecessor,…

Gay pride in Moscow? You must be nuts, honestly :)

Neither do we want it here, nor feel the necessity to allow, either practically, or legislatively, period.

As for the alleged atrocities happening to those against whom the law is aimed, let's read the paper linked.

Re: Google shows support for LGBT Olympians

#135

Post by JulianMorrison »

mlvljr wrote: post #134
Lazare wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting a lot of downvotes, but I see most people aren't bothering to explain your error to you. Let me help: We're concerned with the amount of oppression actually occurring in Russia, and with the actual life of actual gay men and women in Russia. Your comments and links focus on the laws, but it is very possible to pass a wonderful sounding law and then ignore it in practice. In fact, Russia's predecessor,…

Gay pride in Moscow? You must be nuts, honestly :) Neither do we want it here, nor feel the necessity to allow, either practically, or legislatively, period. As for the alleged atrocities happening to those against whom the law is aimed, let's read the paper linked.

You have no right to stop it. And your lack of "want" is disgusting homophobia.

Re: Google shows support for LGBT Olympians

#136

Post by waps »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #133
devilshaircut wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just LG I think many people would say, actually. I've come to the point where I think the acronym is silly. I think right now we are up to "LGBTQIAPK". I may be a little out of date on that. The fact is, some of the issues between the groups in the acronym are shared and some aren't. At one point in time, banding together for them was probably useful if not necessary. Today I think each group would be better going it…

Our shared problem is patriarchy and gender roles. "Why would a man take the inferior role" is behind phobia of gay men and trans women. "Don't let a woman get out of her place, as a sex object for men" is behind phobia of lesbians and trans men. Banding together makes sense.

With the exception of T in sports, unless they compete in their "old" gender. Men and women's bodies are different due to chemical reasons, not just looks. Transgender operations only change the looks, not the chemical reality underneath.

So the outcome of that is obvious : either disallow people to choose gender in sports, or live with the knowledge that all female records will be broken by (ex-)men in no time whatsoever.

Re: Google shows support for LGBT Olympians

#137

Post by waps »

kosei wrote: post #14
[deleted] wrote: post #7

[deleted]

Fighting for LGBT rights shouldn't be considered a "political statement" - it should be considered a human rights issue.

That depends.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Righ... (note that the signatories to this treaty also signed the original treaty and obviously, that means they were lying at least once)

Re: Google shows support for LGBT Olympians

#138

Post by mkr-hn »

erichocean wrote: post #126
mkr-hn wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your point?

That if you care about what's on paper, yeah, Russia is worse than the US. But if you care about facts on the ground—what people do, not what they say—then the US is worse than Russia. I have no idea about any of the facts, but that's what I took to be what he was saying.

I get that. I just don't see how it's relevant in a thread about Russia's laws. There's progress to be made and progress to be celebrated all over the world.

Re: Google shows support for LGBT Olympians

#139

Post by mkr-hn »

Crito wrote: post #131
osipov wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paper also talks about statistics on how often gay people are beaten in Russia. United States is far worse in this respect. Further United States has a greater incarceration rate for gays than Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes Fucking hell, the countries are even the same here...

Could Yandex get away with this?

Re: Google shows support for LGBT Olympians

#140

Post by JulianMorrison »

waps wrote: post #136
JulianMorrison wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our shared problem is patriarchy and gender roles. "Why would a man take the inferior role" is behind phobia of gay men and trans women. "Don't let a woman get out of her place, as a sex object for men" is behind phobia of lesbians and trans men. Banding together makes sense.

With the exception of T in sports, unless they compete in their "old" gender. Men and women's bodies are different due to chemical reasons, not just looks. Transgender operations only change the looks, not the chemical reality underneath. So the outcome of that is obvious : either disallow people to choose gender in sports, or live with the knowledge that all female records will be broken by (ex-)men in no time whats…

The actual scientists, who aren't bigots, have concluded that trans women have no testosterone advantage. After a year or two, a trans woman on testosterone blockers and estrogen (or surgery and estrogen) has the musculature of a woman. Bone mass doesn't change, but that's a disadvantage - more weight to lug around. This is why the olympics and other sporting bodies allow trans women to compete as women.
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