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Why I Did Not Go To Jail

bhorowitz.com

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Re: Why I Did Not Go To Jail

#161

Post by Spooky23 »

metaphorm wrote: post #37
jey wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the supposed rationale for the General Counsel reporting to the CFO in the first place? Isn't a General Counsel supposed to be "general" and not only concerned with financial issues?

that rationale is that obeying the law is a financial decision rather than a moral decision. if the (money) price of breaking the law is less than the profit made by breaking the law, then the CFO will decide to do it. this is THE classic example of corporate sociopathy. unfortunately its still the way a lot of companies do business.

It's not that simple. Running around thinking that CFO = evil sociopath is ridiculous. It's about motivation and accountability.

The story in the article is a great example, I don't think the CFO thought that she was breaking the law. It was a practice that she had engaged in previously, it was vetted by a big-5 accounting firm, and benefited the employees. The CFO was widely respected in the industry -- this wasn't some flimflam person or sociopath.

When your attorney works for someone else, that other party becomes the client. If you, as a CEO (or an individual) are ultimately accountable for the outcome of your decisions, you want the attorney working for YOU, so that you get unfiltered information to drive decisions.

Re: Why I Did Not Go To Jail

#162

Post by Spooky23 »

x0054 wrote: post #148
RockyMcNuts wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hmmh... a manager changing the date on a contract after the fact so it generates more money for him/her is actually pretty obviously a red flag. Kudos to Ben for doing the right thing. If the government couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury that it was wrong, she wouldn't have gone to jail. (Not saying innocent people never go to jail, but it's not like she was an indigent defendant, she had a lot of res…

That's not true at all. This is a federal system, and she probably plead guilty because her choices probably were plead guilty and get 3 months in jail or plead innocent, go to trial, and get 20 years. The federal system is beyond fucked up, and they are making it worse every year.

Exactly.

Someone decided that this individual needed to be made into an example and go to jail for some nominal amount of time. Period.

Go to trial, and they would find some statement made in hours of interrogation that wasn't 100% accurate, and convict her of lying to a Federal officer.

Re: Why I Did Not Go To Jail

#163

Post by pessimizer »

outworlder wrote: post #159

The weirdest thing here is that, mistakes or not, these law violations gives someone jail time. Come on! At most, it caused monetary damages. The proper way to make it right is to apply monetary penalties (eg. fines). What's the reasoning behind locking up someone for that? It is not like the general public is being physically harmed, so 'Michelle' should not have to be physically restricted. Besides, depending on th…

>The proper way to make it right is to apply monetary penalties (eg. fines).

What's the reasoning behind that? In-kind punishment? If somebody runs over a family with a car, should their family be run over by a car? If someone rapes, should they be punished with rape?

I get it if the law is supposed to be a game.

Re: Why I Did Not Go To Jail

#164

Post by walshemj »

jey wrote: post #25
cperciva wrote: post #16

First, when we started the company, Marc and I agreed that the company’s General Counsel would always report directly to me. This is different than in many technology companies where the General Counsel reports to the Chief Financial Officer. This needs to be in bold 72-point font. Corporate behaviour aligns with corporate structure, and if the General Counsel is subordinate to the Chief Financial Officer, complying…

What's the supposed rationale for the General Counsel reporting to the CFO in the first place? Isn't a General Counsel supposed to be "general" and not only concerned with financial issues?

yes there are far more than just financial issues for a GC to deal with labor law is just one area that is in no way in the remit of the CFO - who basically is just a bean counter.

Re: Why I Did Not Go To Jail

#165

Post by pessimizer »

maratd wrote: post #15

Unrelated to the story, there is a dead comment on this thread. It looks like it was written by a racist bot? What? Why is somebody paying money to do this?

It's both a bot and an individual. A lot of his comments are mostly generated by markov chains run over the Bible and other text files.

Re: Why I Did Not Go To Jail

#166

Post by edwintorok »

metaphorm wrote: post #37
jey wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the supposed rationale for the General Counsel reporting to the CFO in the first place? Isn't a General Counsel supposed to be "general" and not only concerned with financial issues?

that rationale is that obeying the law is a financial decision rather than a moral decision. if the (money) price of breaking the law is less than the profit made by breaking the law, then the CFO will decide to do it. this is THE classic example of corporate sociopathy. unfortunately its still the way a lot of companies do business.

How do you quantify jailtime in the 'price of breaking the law'? Also if the CEO has no knowledge of the CFO breaking the law, how can he be held accountable?

Re: Why I Did Not Go To Jail

#167

Post by mathattack »

cperciva wrote: post #16

First, when we started the company, Marc and I agreed that the company’s General Counsel would always report directly to me. This is different than in many technology companies where the General Counsel reports to the Chief Financial Officer. This needs to be in bold 72-point font. Corporate behaviour aligns with corporate structure, and if the General Counsel is subordinate to the Chief Financial Officer, complying…

Indeed very important, and this goes across industry.

What happens when the head of risk management and head of compliance report to business unit heads rather than functional lines? (See most big banks)

What happens when the local partner can overrule national standards committees? (See Arthur Andersen)

If the watcher reports to the watched, you're just going through the motions. Very informative.

Re: Why I Did Not Go To Jail

#169

Post by metaphorm »

Spooky23 wrote: post #161
metaphorm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that rationale is that obeying the law is a financial decision rather than a moral decision. if the (money) price of breaking the law is less than the profit made by breaking the law, then the CFO will decide to do it. this is THE classic example of corporate sociopathy. unfortunately its still the way a lot of companies do business.

It's not that simple. Running around thinking that CFO = evil sociopath is ridiculous. It's about motivation and accountability. The story in the article is a great example, I don't think the CFO thought that she was breaking the law. It was a practice that she had engaged in previously, it was vetted by a big-5 accounting firm, and benefited the employees. The CFO was widely respected in the industry -- this wasn't…

my comment was a response to the question "why do some companies have the GC report to the CFO?". it was not about the company in the originally linked article, which obviously does not use this structure (and for good reason).

regarding that CFO from the linked article though, the federal prosecutor seemed to believe she was a criminal, and proved it enough that a jury agreed also and she eventually served jail time. we're not mind readers so we don't know how she felt about her actions, but honestly, it kinda looks to me like she really was a low level sociopath. just because she was surrounded by people who reinforced and validated her behavior doesn't mean she was acting morally.

Re: Why I Did Not Go To Jail

#170

Post by midas007 »

dctoedt wrote: post #44
cperciva wrote: post #16

First, when we started the company, Marc and I agreed that the company’s General Counsel would always report directly to me. This is different than in many technology companies where the General Counsel reports to the Chief Financial Officer. This needs to be in bold 72-point font. Corporate behaviour aligns with corporate structure, and if the General Counsel is subordinate to the Chief Financial Officer, complying…

A few years ago I was approached by a headhunter for a publicly-traded software company about coming on as their general counsel. We had lunch to talk about it; my prior experience in that role was a good match for what they needed. The search for a general counsel, though, had been commissioned by the CFO, who was politically powerful within the company, and who wanted the GC to report to him. I told the headhunter…

GC is similar to a chief security officer in the need to be as independent as possible to look after the interests of the company and be free from undue pressure.
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