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Warsaw, August 1947

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Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#51

Post by anovikov »

lgieron wrote: post #49
anovikov wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge deaths in WWII were made possible by totalitarian ideologies which made societies insensitive to losses. It only shows how much totalitarianism sucks (and it sucked most in case of Soviets vz Nazi which were BOTH totalitarian).

I wouldn't say the societes were "insensitive to losses". It's just that anyone who expressed their views would be killed/imprisoned.

No there were. A lot of people volunteered knowing they will be almost certainly killed. In a democratic country it wasn't possible. And it was the main reason why so many people were killed - they were prepared to die and kill (purges of the 1930s, on both sides, devalued the human life, it was okay to report your neighbor to NKVD knowing he will be shot just out of jealousity). WWII is a crime of totalitarian regimes - on all sides - and is a lesson to learn that totalitarianism is unacceptable and never makes anyone happy.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#52

Post by valtih1978 »

The nazi lesson is more important in the face of processes which happens today, on our eyes in Poland, in Baltic states and Ukrane (do you know that Nazi penetrate the official power in Ukrane, what would western countires do if somebody seized the official buildings or even attacked a policeman?).

Today, Polish nazi do destroy the monument of the soviet solders, who liberated them, http://ru-facts.com/news/view/31587.html

They do it on the formerly Deutsch land, that was generously gifted to the polish people by "the bloody dictator, Stailn", after Polish nationalists have siezed the western part of Soviet Union in 1920 and collaborated with Hitler to start WWII attacking the Checkoslovakia USSR allies in 1938.

The burgeose-democratic Poland does not deserve being an independent country. Independent, it turns immediately into a nazi regime. Nazi hate Russians, hate communism. The modern Poland is a nazi country, as usually (american, capitalist puppet. Capitalists do raise the nazi to defend the capitalism from communists, not only in Poland but everywhere in the Europe and the Latin America also).

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#53

Post by morsch »

Sharlin wrote: post #44
ekianjo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Let's not forget that MOST of the Japanese cities were actually destroyed, not just Hiroshima and Nagasaki. US army used incendiary bombs on Japanese cities, causing massive fires (and according death tolls in civilian populations, largely exceeding the people who died from atomic bombs) across the country in all large cities. The whole country was effectively destroyed.

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things I think the A-bombs did relatively little damage, both in terms of human losses and material damage, compared to all the conventional bombing going on. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not destroyed in the sense many fire-bombed cities in Japan and Germany were.

90% of Hiroshima and 45% of Nagasaki were destroyed. So pretty much the same as the big firebombing runs. Handshakes all around.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#54

Post by jedrek »

valtih1978 wrote: post #52

The nazi lesson is more important in the face of processes which happens today, on our eyes in Poland, in Baltic states and Ukrane (do you know that Nazi penetrate the official power in Ukrane, what would western countires do if somebody seized the official buildings or even attacked a policeman?). Today, Polish nazi do destroy the monument of the soviet solders, who liberated them, http://ru-facts.com/news/view/3158…

> Today, Polish nazi do destroy the monument of the soviet solders, who liberated them, http://ru-facts.com/news/view/31587.html

You mean the Soviet soldiers that invaded Poland in 1939, killed 20,000 of its politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, artists, clergy, etc, then rolled through again 4 years later only to stay as a way to prop up the communist regime for the next 45 years?

I assure you, "Polish nazis" are not the only ones who have a problem with what Soviet soldiers and officers did, nor do we care for the hundreds of such monuments spread all over Poland.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#55

Post by valtih1978 »

jedrek wrote: post #54
valtih1978 wrote: post #52

The nazi lesson is more important in the face of processes which happens today, on our eyes in Poland, in Baltic states and Ukrane (do you know that Nazi penetrate the official power in Ukrane, what would western countires do if somebody seized the official buildings or even attacked a policeman?). Today, Polish nazi do destroy the monument of the soviet solders, who liberated them, http://ru-facts.com/news/view/3158…

> Today, Polish nazi do destroy the monument of the soviet solders, who liberated them, http://ru-facts.com/news/view/31587.html You mean the Soviet soldiers that invaded Poland in 1939, killed 20,000 of its politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, artists, clergy, etc, then rolled through again 4 years later only to stay as a way to prop up the communist regime for the next 45 years? I assure you, "Polish nazis" a…

In 1939 SU "invated the Poland" is a complete nazi nonsense. SU has invateded its own territory, siezed earlier by the fascist Poland, after the polish government ceased to exist. So, it is hard to tell what you are talking about at all. Returning your territories from criminals is a right thing to do, especially in order to save the territory and people from the Gernam Nazi criminals. Stalin did the only right thing.

> killed 20,000 of its politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, artists, clergy, etc,

I do not know what you are talking about. It seems to be the nazi nonsense, similar to your first sentence.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#56

Post by carlob »

vacri wrote: post #48
carlob wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just goes to show how asymmetrical Afghanistan and Iraq are in terms of war. We just don't know what is like to be on the receiving end of war. Think about it: an Australian soldier in Afghanistan has made a choice (maybe forced by her economic condition, sure) to risk her life in Afghanistan. Afghan civilians didn't really have that choice. The estimates for civilian deaths in Iraq are above 100k, around 20k fo…

so I really don't know what you mean by not a particularly difficult war. To me it's blindingly obvious that I'm talking about the experience of the Western nations in these wars. You seem to be more choosing to be obtuse rather than not actually understanding what I'm saying: that we as citizens of western make effectively zero sacrifices in pursuing these wars.

I got what you meant to say don't worry. It's only that I find it revolting that we are so sheltered from the wars we wage.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#58

Post by atglawok »

valtih1978 wrote: post #55
jedrek wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today, Polish nazi do destroy the monument of the soviet solders, who liberated them, http://ru-facts.com/news/view/31587.html You mean the Soviet soldiers that invaded Poland in 1939, killed 20,000 of its politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, artists, clergy, etc, then rolled through again 4 years later only to stay as a way to prop up the communist regime for the next 45 years? I assure you, "Polish nazis" a…

In 1939 SU "invated the Poland" is a complete nazi nonsense. SU has invateded its own territory, siezed earlier by the fascist Poland, after the polish government ceased to exist. So, it is hard to tell what you are talking about at all. Returning your territories from criminals is a right thing to do, especially in order to save the territory and people from the Gernam Nazi criminals. Stalin did the only right thing…

Please do not abuse words like nazi and do not promote Russian propaganda here, do you argue with a mass murder that was confirmed to be done by Russians ? Or is it also some 'nazi' propaganda ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#59

Post by czechooo »

valtih1978 wrote: post #55
jedrek wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today, Polish nazi do destroy the monument of the soviet solders, who liberated them, http://ru-facts.com/news/view/31587.html You mean the Soviet soldiers that invaded Poland in 1939, killed 20,000 of its politicians, lawyers, doctors, scientists, artists, clergy, etc, then rolled through again 4 years later only to stay as a way to prop up the communist regime for the next 45 years? I assure you, "Polish nazis" a…

In 1939 SU "invated the Poland" is a complete nazi nonsense. SU has invateded its own territory, siezed earlier by the fascist Poland, after the polish government ceased to exist. So, it is hard to tell what you are talking about at all. Returning your territories from criminals is a right thing to do, especially in order to save the territory and people from the Gernam Nazi criminals. Stalin did the only right thing…

> I do not know what you are talking about.

Search for Katyn massacre.

Looking at your tone, you are either very indoctrinated and full of complexes OR it's just a provocation/joke.

I prefer to think it's a second one.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#60

Post by gshubert17 »

The Warsaw Uprising Museum commissioned a computer simulation of the destruction of the city, visualized as a view from an airplane flying over. It's another way to see the scale of destruction.

Article and trailer: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jul/28/simulation-wars...

Film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH7UOB5hGHg

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