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Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

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Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#231

Post by dalore »

dreamdu5t wrote: post #214
dalore wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't ISP's in the USA get a whole bunch of money in the past from the government to improve infrastructure but they didn't which now led to the current state of USA not being an internet leader?

Telcos got subsidies in the form of tax breaks to improve infrastructure. They spent their own money though. They talked about wiring America with fiber when trying to get the subsidies through congress, so that's why people claim they didn't live up to their "bargain." Today this has been twisted into a false narrative: "the teclos got paid 200 billion to build fiber and never did".

A reduction in debt is a form of income though. If I owe someone $200 dollars. But then I only have to give them $100 I now have gains of $100 vs 0 if I had to pay the full amount.

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#232

Post by er35826 »

jusben1369 wrote: post #213
er35826 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat. Most people in the US only have a choice between the specific type of line they use (Cable, DSL, Satellite). There are typically only one provider for either Cable or DSL in an area, and you're not even guaranteed to have an option between either.

I'm really struggling with this concept. I've lived in 3 different metro areas in the US and always had more than one option. I can see it for rural areas but in terms of % of population. Can't find anything definitive on the internet though.

I've lived in three metro areas, and only one had significant choices in provider, and that was a decade ago, 2004. I had the choice of three cable providers, and I was just on the edge of a local ISP's service area so I was able to get a decent price and great service.

I lived in northern Bothell, in Seattle, and I had one ADSL provider (not even 'fast' DSL) and one cable provider to choose from. In the metro area I live in currently, I've had exactly one DSL and one cable provider, and I've moved across the city and the variety didn't change.

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#234

Post by ChrisLTD »

wmf wrote: post #204
ChrisLTD wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing there will be speed tiers at first. The telecom industry doesn't leave money on the table without pressure from the government or fierce competition.

Speed tiers at first? Pretty much all Internet connections today are sold by speed already.

The parent question was asking whether or not speed tiers would go away if they charged for data by the GB. I'm saying they wont go away, at least not immediately.

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#235

Post by waps »

dragontamer wrote: post #221
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The basic problem is that a linear increase in bandwidth for the customer results in an exponential increase in costs for the ISP > N * (N - 1) =~ N^2 (assuming full duplex links, which would be generally correct for the internet) 1) N^2 is not exponential, it's polynomial. 2) Expanding capacity isn't even N^2, it's just linear. If you double each residential customer's bandwidth, you "only" have to double the capa…

Giving everyone a guaranteed connection is a theoretical networking problem. The brute force solution as you've mentioned, is a crossbar switch, which is implemented in O(n^2). However, theoretical networking problems like this have been solved many years ago. The Clos Network can provide full duplex links at significantly better big-O http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clos_network I don't fully remember the details, but…

Have you thought about what such an architecture would mean bandwidth-wise on a WAN network ? I mean, dear God. This would actually require MORE links than full mesh.

In other words, core network capacity (meaning total bandwidth in all links) if you have a clos scales even worse than n^2, with n the bandwidth you deliver to users. Even worse : you need as many long-haul links as you have subscribers (because your subscribers are connected to different locations).

Is there question in your mind as to why ISPs don't do that ?

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#236

Post by Fogest »

lucb1e wrote: post #140
Fogest wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would be stupid to allow servers. Buy your own business line if you want that. Google doesn't want others losing bandwidth because some people want to run servers.

There is a reason the internet was designed with end to end connectivity in mind. If my ISP randomly start filtering packets, like AWS traffic or incoming TCP SYN packets, net neutrality is broken and I will break the contract with that ISP right away. Contract or not, they won't get another penny. It's a different matter if I consume 5TB of data per month and it's costing them a lot of money on bandwidth to upstream…

I don't think Google looks for traffic originating from a server specifically. I doubt it is really even possible as it would look just like traffic from a normal computer.

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#237

Post by saskiah »

Has anyone else tried duplicating some simple tests?

Ping google and netflix while connected to a verizon network. Repeat on a network with a different provider, see if the speeds are proportional, or if there is a larger % decrease for netflix than for google when on the verizon network.

I know this doesn't explicitly prove anything, but if several people all get this result that starts to compile more evidence.

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#238

Post by saskiah »

brown9-2 wrote: post #83

Let's say Verizon was intentionally throttling all traffic to AWS at certain times of the day (which seems like an awfully blunt weapon, but whatever). Where is the part of this where they are promoting their video services over Netflix's "inferior" experience?

They don't have to explicitly promote this.

Honestly, getting people fed up with Netflix (not realizing that Verizon is at fault) and then deciding to go with an actually TV package (with a discount for bundling it with internet, no less) might be the goal here.

That, or the goal is simply to hurt Netflix, which approaches the same end from the side of the provider, not the consumer.

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