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Warsaw, August 1947

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Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#11

Post by lostlogin »

wuschel wrote: post #8

Very interesting pictures. Most photographs I have seen have been taken in black and white, and show the destroyed city in 1944/'45. My family had many tragic memories of the ruins of Warsaw, for they were bound with the jewish ghetto uprising and the following uprising by the AK (armia krajowa, underround army). On another note, many cities still show signs of the destructive effect on war on the jewels of our civil…

Britain's War Machine, a book by David Edgerton, set me off on some fairly disturbing reading when he stated that the British army's total losses for the second work war were less than those suffered by the USSR in the campaign to take Berlin. The sheer scale of the war on the Eastern front is absolutely titanic.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#12

Post by lostlogin »

kolev wrote: post #4

It doesn't seem like the world has changed that much in 60 years!

You need to look at a longer time frame. Humans are slowly, but surely becoming less violent. Way too slowly though. The below link is probably the most interesting thing I've stumbled across on the Internet, although this is in a different form compared to how I first found it. http://edge.org/conversation/mc2011-history-violence-pinker

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#13

Post by lostlogin »

abat wrote: post #10
leoc wrote: post #5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_destruction_of_Warsaw

TL;DR The city must completely disappear from the surface of the earth and serve only as a transport station for the Wehrmacht. No stone can remain standing. Every building must be razed to its foundation. —SS chief Heinrich Himmler, October 17, SS officers' conference Warsaw has to be pacified, that is, razed to the ground. —Adolf Hitler, 1944[2]

The appalling behavior of the Red Army and of the USSR in general at the time is briefly covered in the Wikipedia entry. Churchill in particular seems to have tried very hard to do the right thing.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#14

Post by kendalk »

lostlogin wrote: post #12
kolev wrote: post #4

It doesn't seem like the world has changed that much in 60 years!

You need to look at a longer time frame. Humans are slowly, but surely becoming less violent. Way too slowly though. The below link is probably the most interesting thing I've stumbled across on the Internet, although this is in a different form compared to how I first found it. http://edge.org/conversation/mc2011-history-violence-pinker

Quark: "Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They’re a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don’t believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes." -- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: The Siege of AR-558 (#7.8) (1998)

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#15

Post by mdigi »

Building from the first picture, The Prudential[0], looks pretty much the same right now[1]. I don't know if the actual renovation started already or not but hopefully it'll be turned into this[2].

[0]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prudential,_Warsaw

[1]https://maps.google.pl/maps?q=mapa+warszawa&ll=52.235936,21....

[2]http://www.bimarch.pl/cmsArchitectPortfolio/renderShow/id/6

Edit: wording.

Edit2: I just remembered there is a movie showing Warsaw in 1935[3] and another one when city was destroyed in 1939[4]. I encourage you to visit Warsaw Rising Museum if you ever have a chance.

[3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5ea_396LPo

[4]http://www.miastoruin.pl/index_en.html

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#17

Post by znowi »

lostlogin wrote: post #11
wuschel wrote: post #8

Very interesting pictures. Most photographs I have seen have been taken in black and white, and show the destroyed city in 1944/'45. My family had many tragic memories of the ruins of Warsaw, for they were bound with the jewish ghetto uprising and the following uprising by the AK (armia krajowa, underround army). On another note, many cities still show signs of the destructive effect on war on the jewels of our civil…

Britain's War Machine, a book by David Edgerton, set me off on some fairly disturbing reading when he stated that the British army's total losses for the second work war were less than those suffered by the USSR in the campaign to take Berlin. The sheer scale of the war on the Eastern front is absolutely titanic.

Being curious I looked up the numbers.

UK death toll: 326,000 military and 62,000 civilian. Russia: 10 million each.

"Absolutely titanic" is about right.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#18

Post by zbraniecki »

mdigi wrote: post #15

Building from the first picture, The Prudential[0], looks pretty much the same right now[1]. I don't know if the actual renovation started already or not but hopefully it'll be turned into this[2]. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prudential,_Warsaw [1] https://maps.google.pl/maps?q=mapa+warszawa&ll=52.235936,21.... [2] http://www.bimarch.pl/cmsArchitectPortfolio/renderShow/id/6 Edit: wording. Edit2: I just remembere…

last time I visited Warsaw it was in much worse shape than on google maps photo. Hope it'll get into [2] soon :)

p.s. I grew up really close to it - like a block away. Seeing photos of the streets around my block at the time when you could see horizon and ruins... frisson.

Re: Warsaw, August 1947

#20

Post by ternaryoperator »

znowi wrote: post #17
lostlogin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Britain's War Machine, a book by David Edgerton, set me off on some fairly disturbing reading when he stated that the British army's total losses for the second work war were less than those suffered by the USSR in the campaign to take Berlin. The sheer scale of the war on the Eastern front is absolutely titanic.

Being curious I looked up the numbers. UK death toll: 326,000 military and 62,000 civilian. Russia: 10 million each. "Absolutely titanic" is about right.

While it doesn't compare to Russian deaths, 388,000 UK deaths is a staggering number in its own right.
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