Live data from Hacker News

Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

wired.co.uk

61–70 of 205 posts

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#61
post #57
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flash and Silverlight are dying anyway. So it's up to the movie industry and not up to us to bend over. And you know at least Flash was separated from the browser and ported to several systems. DRM in HTML5 will mean that Google, Apple, Microsoft will simply bundle their DRM modules and the free software world can fuck off. DRM in HTML5 is far worse than the status quo.

Whatever we may WISH, Flash is still everywhere. And still necessary, for example, to play sounds across browsers

And that has absolutely nothing at all to do with DRM...

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#62
post #2

Part of the difficulty of bringing this about is making p2p easy for users. I have high hopes that WebRTC data channels can start tearing these walls down by making it as simple as opening a web app.

> Part of the difficulty of bringing this about is making p2p easy for users. As a general concept, P2P is easy for users - using bittorrent clients, TPB, etc. is essentially mainstream. The one thing that would be nice is browser support - I would love it if Chrome had the option to download .torrent files using the Chrome download manager. Thanks to web seeds[0], this would allow providers to convert any download t…

Opera has this since about 8 years. I used Opera heavily back then, but I never felt that this needs to be baked in. Other opera features I miss much more, most importantly free keyboard hotkey programming. I always had y, x, c (without modifier) mapped to back, forward and fast forward.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#63
post #57
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flash and Silverlight are dying anyway. So it's up to the movie industry and not up to us to bend over. And you know at least Flash was separated from the browser and ported to several systems. DRM in HTML5 will mean that Google, Apple, Microsoft will simply bundle their DRM modules and the free software world can fuck off. DRM in HTML5 is far worse than the status quo.

Whatever we may WISH, Flash is still everywhere. And still necessary, for example, to play sounds across browsers

Legacy browsers sure, but deciding whether to add DRM to HTML presupposes a browser that plays sound according to the standard.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#64

Decrentralizing the web's software isn't good enough. We need to decentralize the hardware. Right now, connections to the web look like a tree, where a whole bunch of connections get funneled through an ISP. That ISP has the power. The power to throttle, the power to block, the power to record. And that ISP can be pressured by other powers. We need to decentralize so that instead of looking like a hierarchical tree,…

>Right now, connections to the web look like a tree, where a whole bunch of connections get funneled through an ISP

This is very true. More so if you look at countries like the UK where ISPs have recently been consolidated into MAFIAA-complying monopolies that censor just about anything that Hollywood and the government ask them to. It's scary how close ISPs are to the 'governements' of the UK and USA. Obamas' recent NSA 'reform' proposal even suggested that ISPs be in charge of surveillance & storage of Metadata instead of the NSA! WTF? Fascism.

Mesh networks have a big role to play in decentralizing the the post-NSA internet. Micropayments through bitcoin and cryptocurrencies will encourage individual nodes to provide bandwidth to users [1]. Smartphone apps like OpenGarden [2] and systems like the Athens Wireless Metropolitan Network (AWMN) [3] are the frontrunners of the new internet.

[1] https://crypto.cs.virginia.edu/courses/14s-pet/2014/01/30/aw... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Garden [3] http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/08/mesh-internet-pr...

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#65

It's great that Berners-Lee is saying this, but he'd have retained a lot more of his authority to pronounce on the future of the Web had he not thrown his weight behind the W3C's horrible plan to put DRM into HTML.

Let's crucify his for that :) I hear what you are saying, but there is also reason for drm. Or we will have flash forever. What I am saying, I at least can understand why he did it.

Yes let's.

Standardizing DRM extensions is bullshit. No new browser can ever be standards compliant when being compliant requires having the appropriate binary blob as distributed by the approved parties.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#66
post #13

The internet is decentralized, the web has never been. HTTP protocol doesn't support it. But it's time to do that. What we need is the possibility of peer-to-peer connections between browsers.

Peer-to-peer connections are possible right now with Chrome and Firefox using WebRTC peerconnection.

The WebRTC connection is bootstrapped through a server (STUN and TURN), but that's the case with almost all peer-to-peer software (take a look into how Bitcoin or Bittorrent is bootstrapped if you don't believe me). But anyone can run a STUN and/or TURN server.

Once the connection is bootstrapped, it's entirely peer-to-peer between browsers.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#67
We need IPV6. We need every device to be fully connected, not the halfassed solution we have now. Full connectivity plus ever increasing distributed and unused computing capacity is the right playground for a new set of network usage paradigms.

The mainframe->distributed->mainframe cycle will then once again swing to distributed (yes, we now live again in a mainframe age).

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#68
I've been trying to think about "rethinking" government for quite a while. The idea of a web based governance system seems really appealing, in the sense that I think the greatest strength of the web is how quickly ideas can go from concept to execution. Its about the closest thing to a meritocracy as we've ever come, and that's simply because the gate keeper is thrown away. Think about how many great things have sprung out of places like Reddit. Ordinary people who have a quick flash of a good idea can take 30 minutes to type something up... and sometimes it gets traction. Getting things done in our current system requires an inhuman like persistence, and the luck of making a relevant connection. Even if you have a good idea, its a difficult thing to execute.

I have this image of a framework/protocol in my head around allowing various policies to be created, and built on top of each other. As a programmer I pretty much used object oriented programming as an inspiration. Though I guess even OOP had its inspiration from biology. Its a way for an organic system to grow and adapt robustly. I think just like computer programs, government needs that too.

Added to that, if the web has a decent self regulation mechanism, that makes the justification of regulating the web even harder.

The one problem is, the advantage "physical" governments have is they have sovereignty. If Amazon starts doing illegal things, the FBI can arrest Jeff Bezos. The internet doesn't have an equivlent means.

However I think there is away to have the essence of sovereignty, and that is through a new crypto-currency like bitcoin. Imagine if to be a part, and to receive the benefits of this online sovereign nation you had to register your receive address. If the sovereign entity had a way to embargo your ability to accept payments in the currency, it might be enough penalty to fall back inline with whatever regulations were created. I think it also provides another means to give legitamicy to a crypto-currency.

An example of something that would be cool is this. You want to create an open source space program, so you propose the idea on your local netizen forum. The idea has overwhelming support, so someone creates a new policy component, and gives permissions to suction tax funds. I can imagine something like that happening in hours. Imagine initiating a public effort going from idea to reality in hours.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#69

Decrentralizing the web's software isn't good enough. We need to decentralize the hardware. Right now, connections to the web look like a tree, where a whole bunch of connections get funneled through an ISP. That ISP has the power. The power to throttle, the power to block, the power to record. And that ISP can be pressured by other powers. We need to decentralize so that instead of looking like a hierarchical tree,…

Yes, probably too difficult to move entirely, but you can build it off of the current web, and just migrate it over, or: You don't move a mountain, you move stones.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#70
The idea of an open, free and decentralized web created by all for all is one of the main reasons I became a Mozillian. I invite all that think this is a good idea to check out their local Mozilla communities and help carry this mission onwards.

You can get guidance on how to get involved with Mozilla by following the instructions and filling the form at http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/

=)

Post reply on HN