Live data from Hacker News

There’s something rotten in the state of online video streaming

gigaom.com

11–20 of 62 posts

Re: There’s something rotten in the state of online video streaming

#11
post #5

I wonder if publishing these metrics would go a long way to solving the problem. I know I'd must prefer to sign up with an ISP that doesn't throttle traffic I care about. I guess the big problem with that idea is that in many areas of North America there is very little competition in the ISP marketplace. If the government was going to do something, I'd prefer it concentrate on increasing competition. Ideally, every h…

> If the government was going to do something, I'd prefer it concentrate on increasing competition.

Indeed, competition would help tremendously. Mandated wholesale access to the last mile delivery would be a great start (and something that used to be mandated for DSL from ILECs). I believe AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, etc can do a good job of connecting my house to their network, and deliver my data to their office; from there, I'd prefer to have someone else take responsibility.

Bonuses if new regulation in the same spirit covered all mediums (or at least more of them), and addressed unfair pricing practices by AT&T from the last time (direct to consumer offerings were priced significantly below the wholesale pricing, which was anti-competitive). Some parameters for dealing with congestion in the shared medium between the end user and the central office(s) might be appropriate too.

Re: There’s something rotten in the state of online video streaming

#12
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

weren't they payed with tax money to build the infrastructure?

Sort of, my understanding is that they mostly received tax breaks with possibly some subsidies. Either way, they received an incentive to do so.

Verizon got something like $10billion in cash to build FiOS out in New York...and never did

Re: There’s something rotten in the state of online video streaming

#13
post #3

I wish ISPs could stay out of the content business since their content curation and presentation are usually subpar at best.

I wish we could amend the constitution that they are not allowed to do anything at all but sell bits to consumers. No selling of content, access to consumers, devices or ice cream or whatever other scheme they come up with. Their sole interest has to be selling more bits! If they even as much as think about doing anything else there need to bd draconian penalties. I would even argue that they are endangering infrastructure and charge them with terrorism.

Re: There’s something rotten in the state of online video streaming

#14
post #5

I wonder if publishing these metrics would go a long way to solving the problem. I know I'd must prefer to sign up with an ISP that doesn't throttle traffic I care about. I guess the big problem with that idea is that in many areas of North America there is very little competition in the ISP marketplace. If the government was going to do something, I'd prefer it concentrate on increasing competition. Ideally, every h…

Google is making performance metrics for YouTube public to help people when choosing an ISP (in places where there is a choice): http://www.ntca.org/new-edge/video/google-to-rate-isps-based...

Re: There’s something rotten in the state of online video streaming

#15
The first rotten thing there is DRM. There are no DRM-free video services where you can buy anything (Headweb doesn't count because it's regionally restricted). So there simply is nothing to chose from. Failure at step 0. It's not just rotten - it's completely decomposed.

Re: There’s something rotten in the state of online video streaming

#16
Reminds me of the Comcast situation with Bitorrent in 2007 [0].

I have little doubt that ISPs will continue to escalate this game of service degradation and denial without strict regulation.

0: http://consumerist.com/2007/10/27/damning-proof-comcast-cont...

Re: There’s something rotten in the state of online video streaming

#17

Is there any interest in a Chrome plugin that would passively report anonymized download speed for things like YouTube or Amazon? I can imagine that kind of info would be useful.

I think if you could do some detection of what connectivity is being used, and other sorts of relevant connection data, it would be a valuable motivator to see, "We've detected you are 30% slower than other customers with x and y differences in service"

This is super hand wavy, but I think with proper data it could be a useful tool.

Re: There’s something rotten in the state of online video streaming

#18
post #2

Make the cable companies common carriers! https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/restore-net-neutra...

This actually isn't a net neutrality issue because back in 2009 when the FCC was writing the open internet order it decided not to mess with peering and interconnection disputes. So designating ISPs as common carriers could be a first step here, but it wouldn't be the only step.

Re: There’s something rotten in the state of online video streaming

#19
As a comcast customer, I've noticed that if I am having a problem with streaming video that if I go to speedtest.net, the video streams fine after the initial ping test from speedtest.net. It will be fine for a few moments (seconds to minutes), but will slow down or stutter again eventually. A fresh visit to speedtest.net again corrects the problem. I have a hunch that a visit to speedtest.net will disable traffic shaping for a set period of time in order to convince people that their connection is fine.

It is interesting that in the article about Verizon's shaping of traffic to AWS that the tech support had the author go to speedtest.net and test his traffic in order to tell him "see no problems!". I've had similar responses from AT&T when I was a DSL subscriber.

I understand that traffic shaping should only affect particular sites and that,in theory,there would be no need for a temporary disabling of traffic shaping for a speedtest. My theory is that due to the high volume of packets needed in order to have a good result on speedtest.net, the analyses of packets at the router for traffic shaping is enough of a slowdown to affect the results.

Anyone else ever notice this? Any alternative explanations as to why going to speedtest.net would suddenly make paused streaming video run again? I notice this mainly when watching live streaming youtube events or sometimes when I am watching netflix during peak hours.

I would love to hear alternative hypothesis as to what is going so that they could be tested!

Re: There’s something rotten in the state of online video streaming

#20

Is there any interest in a Chrome plugin that would passively report anonymized download speed for things like YouTube or Amazon? I can imagine that kind of info would be useful.

I think if you could do some detection of what connectivity is being used, and other sorts of relevant connection data, it would be a valuable motivator to see, "We've detected you are 30% slower than other customers with x and y differences in service" This is super hand wavy, but I think with proper data it could be a useful tool.

That's what many of the tests at M-Labs are trying to do (I encourage people to take a look http://www.measurementlab.net/) but packets don't traverse networks in a straightforward path. I think focusing on that data and trying to figure out ways to prove traffic manipulation and pinpoint consistent places/times/applications where it slows would be valuable. It's also worth understanding how the FCC currently measures speed and treats speed tests. It's not at all straightforward http://www.fcc.gov/measuring-broadband-america/2013/develope...

We should have a technically-dominated discussion about tests and the right way to look for problems, that we aren't having today because it's so wonky. We totally need data, but we also need to figure out what data will be most useful to prove bad behavior. For example, if my speed drops to 1 Mbps for 30 minutes during prime time but my speeds the rest of the day are 55 Mbps then that blip is heavily discounted, but shouldn't be given that I'm probably trying to stream video.

Post reply on HN