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Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

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Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#561
post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Console window aside, what do you think of Powershell as a shell/scripting language?

I'd hazard a guess and say that they didn't use it much and only noticed »Whoa, I have to type Get-ChildItem instead of ls? That's so bloated, get me out of here.« (Side note: I'm a developer, not an administrator and I use PowerShell as such – I have no clue of how to query AD or manage IIS, but I do know the language very well. I also was a technical reviewer of the PowerShell Cookbook 2nd ed.) From my experience t…

Thanks! Sounds like I will have to get serious about finding time to get it under my fingers then.

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#562
post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the world needs a strong Microsoft again It's extremely dangerous to think if Microsoft as weak. They have enormous profits and revenue - far, far bigger than Google, for example - that are secure far into the future. They are willing to plow this money for an almost indefinite amount of time into any product to brute force it to success (see Xbox) and they are willing stoop lower and employ underhand tacti…

Except that, I'd dare say most of the successes in the last 5-10 years, IMO, have not been merely "brute force" successes. XBox is a fantastic product, all things considered. Azure is a compelling competitor. It would be more accurate to say Microsoft is willing to plow money into a product long enough for that product development to get past the barriers to success that are inherit in a 130k person software company.

> XBox is a fantastic product, all things considered.

Fantastic in what regard? Can I put my favorite linux distribution on it? Can I even write and release software for it under GPL? Without "applying" to microsoft and waiting for them to "approve" it?

Maybe it's just me but I don't really see why I should buy hardware that is 100% controlled by microsoft when it can't do anything that a general purpose computer couldn't do...

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#563
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? What good would a strong Microsoft provide us? What void would that fill? We've been there, done that and frankly, I don't care to go back. They abused their power when they had it and I have no intent of giving it back to them to give them another crack at it. No, I much prefer today's world of Google, Apple, Samsung and FOSS in all its myriad forms battling it out. There's more developer frameworks than ever a…

Really? The world of Google and Apple (Samsung and FOSS aren't even a player) is a world of closed computing platforms where people can't control their own devices and can't and don't code for them. More languages? I don't think so. How many languages can you use to write apps for your iPhone or Android device? Objective C and Java respectively and that's about it. With Google not only do you not control your apps/de…

Wow, literally everything you say is false.

> The world of Google and Apple (Samsung and FOSS aren't even a player) is a world of closed computing platforms

As a user of Omnirom and a donator to Replicant I don't understand how you come to this conclusion.

Agreed, the alternatives to google apps are not too good today, but that could relatively easily be changed. But if compared to windows phone. Really? How?

> where people can't control their own devices

If installing a different operating system with the tools from the official SDK is not controlling my own devices, what is?

Again, the proprietary drivers is a bad situation, but compared to windows phone, what exactly do they more openly?

> and can't and don't code for them.

All the tools required to build apks are open source. The eclipse android plugin was open source and android studio is open source. Enabling installing your own apps directly is natively built in and can literally be enabled in seconds. If you "can't and don't code for" android even if you want, then there is really nobody but yourself to blame.

> More languages? I don't think so. How many languages can you use to write apps for your iPhone or Android device?

As others have said, you may want to use android's gui toolkit, but other than that native applications can rather easily be wrapped. As it is linux, you may even run command line programs in any language you can compile for arm or compile an interpreter for directly.

> Objective C and Java respectively and that's about it.

Have you actually heard about xamarin'c c# for mobile devices? python + kivy? ...?

> With Google not only do you not control your apps/device

Well, I can compile the operating system myself and remove any apps I don't like in the process. I could also remove them from the device because I have root rights. There is literally nothing but the proprietary drivers and firmware I don't control, but again, how exactly does that get better with windows phone?

> even your data isn't under your control any more.

I use the google apps for convenience but you can use your android device without them perfectly fine. Install f-droid. Install only open source apps. Try doing this with windows phone?

> Yes, Microsoft's business practices weren't so great, but I don't agree the new world is much better.

With android being open source you can see the benefits directly: Other systems like Blackberry OS (or whatever it is called) or Sailfish OS can (rather) easily implement android's runtime and run almost all android apps natively. Compare this with what wine has to do?

> As a developer it actually feels worse.

It feels worse not to have proprietary microsoft specific tools that lock you into the microsoft ecosystem forever?

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#564
post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hazard a guess and say that they didn't use it much and only noticed »Whoa, I have to type Get-ChildItem instead of ls? That's so bloated, get me out of here.« (Side note: I'm a developer, not an administrator and I use PowerShell as such – I have no clue of how to query AD or manage IIS, but I do know the language very well. I also was a technical reviewer of the PowerShell Cookbook 2nd ed.) From my experience t…

Thanks! Sounds like I will have to get serious about finding time to get it under my fingers then.

I started out code-golfing Project Euler problems in PowerShell and later noticed that because it's .NET-based it can complement .NET development fairly well. Examples below are all things I did recently.

Need to fiddle around with a format string to get it right?

    '{0:yyyy-MM-dd}' -f (Get-Date)
Or need to quickly test a web service whether the new method works correctly?

    $p = New-WebServiceProxy http://localhost/FooService.svc
    $p.AwesomeMethod()
Or quickly figure out whether a license key matches with the lib you have lying around anyway:

    Add-Type -Path key.dll
    [Key.LicenseKey]::Check('...')
For me it dramatically reduced the number of ConsoleApplication8624 projects in VS. In any case, if there are questions you can also drop me a mail.

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#565
post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised when C# developers think VS is the best thing ever. Having used multiple languages and technologies, I'm not even slightly impressed by VS.

Then I don't think you've used VS much. Intellisense with tooltip comments, templates and code snippets. Most VS users haven't scratched the surface of its power. IntelliJ borrows a lot of the ideas from VS btw, their Resharper addon is excellent. I've also used XCode and Eclipse, they're poor men's versions of VS.

Ehhhhh...

I've use VisualStudio every day for the past years. And honestly there are a lot ideas they could borrow from other tools like Eclipse.

Some examples that I personally feel are ways that C# in VS is lackluster compared to Java in Eclipse.

No proper automatic build. While the stuff in Eclipse is a bit too aggressive sometimes it's really one of those really cool features to have.

Errors, warnings, other tools like StyleCop don't show errors inline with the code. I mean, really? I have to scroll through the error list and click?

It also doesn't really seem to understand the code it's processing. I'd expect that when I'm working on Silverlight with C# that the premiere tool from Microsoft should be able to handle things like refactoring properties in C# where it would update automatically in XAML.

And this is not even mentioning the complete trainwreck that is MSDN. Perhaps you can understand it once you really get into it, but I find it extremely confusing the way it mixes different frameworks with similar but subtly different functionality. (Eg a lot of things in Windows Phone are similar, but not identical, to features in .Net and trying to find the "chain of classes" that are relevant to your code is not nearly easy enough.)

Some of these things are probably things you can fix with extensions like Reshaper. But in the end you'll pay hundreds of dollars to compete with something that is free in Eclipse.

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#566
post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! Sounds like I will have to get serious about finding time to get it under my fingers then.

I started out code-golfing Project Euler problems in PowerShell and later noticed that because it's .NET-based it can complement .NET development fairly well. Examples below are all things I did recently. Need to fiddle around with a format string to get it right? '{0:yyyy-MM-dd}' -f (Get-Date) Or need to quickly test a web service whether the new method works correctly? $p = New-WebServiceProxy http://localhost/FooS…

Cool, thanks again

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#567
post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have years of experience with WPF & Silverlight and agree that it has high learning curve, but once you know it there really isn't much of anything you can't to simpler, faster, and more elegantly than in HTML5, if you have a back end you need to interact with.

What about using it on anything that isn't windows or mac os? Isn't it kind of the point of web browsers to render webpages in a common open language instead of being a host for proprietary vendor specific plugins? What's the big advantage over standalone applications in that case anyway?

We are talking about enterprise which is 99% Windows.

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#568
post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WPF

Turning HMTL 5 into a competent application platform = million of man hours. Convincing Google, Apple, Mozilla, the rest of the universe to adopt Microsoft's closed platform (even if it were Open Sourced) = billions of billions of man hours :)

We are talking about enterprise. There is a chance to build something nice there instead of cramming badly-designed document-oriented languages into GUI space. Apple is closed AFAIK.

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#569

His statements sounded rather generic. Satya on first things to focus on: * ruthlessly remove obstacles to innovation * focus innovation on things that Microsoft can uniquely do * find more meaning at work opportunities for Microsoft: * opportunities are unbounded; we want need to be able to pick a unique contribution that we want to bring.. (focus on productivity) why will Microsoft be successful? * we have the tale…

Well, it was his first day on the job. I didn't expect him to roll out a 50-page strategy document.

He was cheerleading here. Boosting the morale of Microsoft employees by talking about how awesome they are and how their lives will improve under his tutelage.

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#570
Dear Mr Nadella,

if you want Microsoft to innovate, simply throw out everything you have done so far and bring us a real object-oriented operating system that can work seamlessly on one machine, many machines on a lan or many machines on a wan.

Productivity could be vastly enhanced from what it is today by a true object-oriented design.

Computers are not file cabinets. Computers contain objects. The file metaphor no longer serves us.

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