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Linux should be a part of School Education

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Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#31

Post by pessimizer »

simonh wrote: post #4

What a complete load of tosh. Education is about teaching children valuable skills they can apply in their daily lives. How many of them would ever see a PC running Linux again? The cost argument doesn't really stand up either, books cost money and 'do nothing but line the pockets of the publishers' to paraphrase the author. It's not as if computers running Linux cost nothing either. If Linux is going to find a place…

What other common subjects that employ a large proportion of the population do you think shouldn't be taught in schools?

When exactly do children apply geology in their daily lives, or calculate refraction? It sounds as if you're making a case for home economics, basic arithmetic, and reading to be the only subjects. Maybe marketing?

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#32

Post by hoggle »

csmithuk wrote: post #6
simonh wrote: post #4

What a complete load of tosh. Education is about teaching children valuable skills they can apply in their daily lives. How many of them would ever see a PC running Linux again? The cost argument doesn't really stand up either, books cost money and 'do nothing but line the pockets of the publishers' to paraphrase the author. It's not as if computers running Linux cost nothing either. If Linux is going to find a place…

I don't wish to hijack this thread but tying the Raspberry Pi to education is terrible if you ask me. I agreed about the Raspberry Pi being the best device for education right from day one. That was until my father bought my daughter one for her birthday and I ended up being the resident "fix it guru" for it. The thing teaches you merely how to jump through funny shaped hoops to get something working rather than anyt…

Could it be that you were exited about fiddling with rpi yourself? I don't have children but I guess it's difficult to deliberately not help them (too much) solving problems which are inherently interesting to you (grumpy neckbeardism can't hide that fact, you obviously still care about this).

I think rpi (culture/ecosystem) is still absolutely the best thing, it's literally the perfect AppleII/C64 for today. Today is also more complex and more stuff is possible but there is also Unix which at least tries to be simple.

I've given one of my rpis to my 13 year old neighbour and he is regularly meddling with it. It's likely that he is also constantly failing but that's what is needed in order to learn, it certainly was the case for me when I started (I'm still failing after many years, that's a reality).

Where you could make a difference is just by saying you'll be there to answer some questions ... now and then. Encouragement and enthusiasm!

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#33

Post by pessimizer »

computernovice wrote: post #30
pessimizer wrote: post #25

Of course it should. The Linux cli is as good a gateway to understanding of the world around you as the Commodore 64 and the Apple II clis were for me as a kid. If you start a child off with Windows or Mac, look forward to them maybe not ever understanding what a directory is, or that a computer has two types of memory. Consciously choosing and paying a premium to learn computing from Windows or Mac OS sounds to me o…

What are the two types of memory of a computer? Can you recommend any resources (books/websites) to learning things like that about a computer? Edit: I googled it but each result explained a different type of memory (caches, system RAM, virtual memory, hard drive) or (RAM vs ROM) or (Primary vs Secondary).

There's a place called the internet. It has information for you.

edit: there's volatile memory and non-volatile memory. Or hundreds of different types for every place they're used, every purpose, and every brand name they're sold under, for trolls who miss the forest for the trees.

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#34

Post by rbanffy »

radida wrote: post #14

No it shouldn't, and honestly neither should programming. Sometimes I swear we can get so drunk on our own farts that we think engineering is the only valuable profession in the world, when in reality not everyone needs to be able to code a rails app if all they want to do is check their Facebook. There are many other jobs that are important and valuable to society that do not involve CS - lets just put down the kook…

If a person does not understand how the world around them works (and most of it is driven by computers), how can we expect them to adequately operate in it?

A couple weeks back I remember the case when someone bleached her home because she feared she could catch the viruses on her computer. There are many people who do, for the lack of a better word, rituals with their computers because they can't figure out their wi-fi radio tales some time to grab the local network signal. They do it because they did it once and it worked and they have no idea it had nothing to do with the problem they were trying to solve.

A basic understanding of technology is increasingly important.

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#35

Post by binocarlos »

professorTuring wrote: post #17
binocarlos wrote: post #9

Rather than this OS or that OS - I really wished someone at school had taught me: * how DNS works * the process model with stdin,stdout,env vars + cmd args * streams - text or otherwise * protocols like HTTP but what they actually did on the wire Every OS uses the above list and so even for a young child - you can teach by example. Surely using nice fluffy diagrams it would be worth trying this to find out that only…

Teaching those topics at school is crazy. This is just "random stuff" for kids, completely nonsense. We should teach "how" computers work (very basic principles) and maybe "how" communications work (very basic principles). And definitely we don't need to teach kids about HTTP... Maybe, and only maybe, we could teach them how a programming language can help them with their "math homeworks" and things like that...

Yes good point - teaching the basic principles is sort of what I was thinking - HTTP bad example.

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#36

Post by CmonDev »

simonh wrote: post #4

What a complete load of tosh. Education is about teaching children valuable skills they can apply in their daily lives. How many of them would ever see a PC running Linux again? The cost argument doesn't really stand up either, books cost money and 'do nothing but line the pockets of the publishers' to paraphrase the author. It's not as if computers running Linux cost nothing either. If Linux is going to find a place…

Yeah, but they need to see that life is difficult and you have to struggle to become successful. What could be better than a bit of Linux to give a taste of that?

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#37

Post by userbinator »

hoggle wrote: post #32
csmithuk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't wish to hijack this thread but tying the Raspberry Pi to education is terrible if you ask me. I agreed about the Raspberry Pi being the best device for education right from day one. That was until my father bought my daughter one for her birthday and I ended up being the resident "fix it guru" for it. The thing teaches you merely how to jump through funny shaped hoops to get something working rather than anyt…

Could it be that you were exited about fiddling with rpi yourself? I don't have children but I guess it's difficult to deliberately not help them (too much) solving problems which are inherently interesting to you (grumpy neckbeardism can't hide that fact, you obviously still care about this). I think rpi (culture/ecosystem) is still absolutely the best thing, it's literally the perfect AppleII/C64 for today. Today i…

> I think rpi (culture/ecosystem) is still absolutely the best thing, it's literally the perfect AppleII/C64 for today.

Really? In many ways RPi is far more of a closed, proprietary system than the common desktop PC.

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#38

Post by rythie »

The problem here is that (in the UK at least) kids come out of school knowing nothing about about a computer works or programming - windows/mac/ios/android increasingly hide this from you. Kids think that programming a computer game is some trival task and have no idea how to even make the simplest of programs.

The counter point is that they shouldn't need to know this, but then why do we teach flower germination? or the causes of the second world war? or Shakespeare? - I've never had to use these in everyday life.

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#39

Post by arethuza »

binocarlos wrote: post #35
professorTuring wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teaching those topics at school is crazy. This is just "random stuff" for kids, completely nonsense. We should teach "how" computers work (very basic principles) and maybe "how" communications work (very basic principles). And definitely we don't need to teach kids about HTTP... Maybe, and only maybe, we could teach them how a programming language can help them with their "math homeworks" and things like that...

Yes good point - teaching the basic principles is sort of what I was thinking - HTTP bad example.

Actually, I think teaching about HTTP isn't a bad example. At it's base it is pretty simple to understand, there are good tools to work with it, it's hugely important and it leads on nicely to things like DNS and security.

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#40

Post by binocarlos »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #18
binocarlos wrote: post #9

Rather than this OS or that OS - I really wished someone at school had taught me: * how DNS works * the process model with stdin,stdout,env vars + cmd args * streams - text or otherwise * protocols like HTTP but what they actually did on the wire Every OS uses the above list and so even for a young child - you can teach by example. Surely using nice fluffy diagrams it would be worth trying this to find out that only…

Teaching those in school would be a waste of time. I work full time in the tech industry and don't fully understand all of those topics because they are irrelevant to me. People are never going to need to understand them for daily use.

This is exactly where I was for 10 years - until I learnt how they actually work (age 30+).

Since clicking with these basic things - I have enjoyed my job much much more.

However - at what age they should be introduced not sure - 10, 15, 31?

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