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Linux should be a part of School Education

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Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#11

Post by venomsnake »

csmithuk wrote: post #5

Windows should be a part of School Education! MacOS should be a part of School Education! It's primitive tribalism. People should learn "computing" as part of a school education as over life things are going to change and they're going to need to adapt.

The problem is that neither windows nor OSX teach computing or computing culture. They teach the feudal model. The increasingly walled gardens. The "When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout" Currently Linux is the place where you can get your hands dirty and has the Wild West spirit that the 80s,90s and the internet had. We should teach the kids to spit in the face of authority and when obeying it to do it so reluctantly. And currently we are doing the exact opposite in all areas of human knowlege.

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#12

Post by dsr_ »

simonh wrote: post #4

What a complete load of tosh. Education is about teaching children valuable skills they can apply in their daily lives. How many of them would ever see a PC running Linux again? The cost argument doesn't really stand up either, books cost money and 'do nothing but line the pockets of the publishers' to paraphrase the author. It's not as if computers running Linux cost nothing either. If Linux is going to find a place…

In the early 1980s, Apple decided that they were going to own the education market. They sent salespeople to school districts, explaining that computers -- the future of education, as everyone and magazine articles said -- could be affordable, and here was a complete plan including discounts, financing, and software.

The result was that the Apple II series did take over the education market, and also sold quite a few machines to the parents of kids who used Apples in school.

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#13

Post by mattlutze »

simonh wrote: post #4

What a complete load of tosh. Education is about teaching children valuable skills they can apply in their daily lives. How many of them would ever see a PC running Linux again? The cost argument doesn't really stand up either, books cost money and 'do nothing but line the pockets of the publishers' to paraphrase the author. It's not as if computers running Linux cost nothing either. If Linux is going to find a place…

The author's argument is mainly that Windows as a dominant OS for school computers is more expensive than Linux, and is proprietary.

What the author fails to take into account is that the major cost to schools and school systems is the continuing cost of ownership for these computers. Updates, maintenance, tech support, all cost time and money. I regularly perform alternatives analyses for clients, and while I'd love to more often recommend open source solutions, the risk of finding qualified support or full-time employees, and the often greater costs associated with that service, is usually too high to not go proprietary (all features and needs being otherwise equal).

However, I do agree with the spirit of one of the author's ethos(es?), and perhaps disagree with simonh here -- a flavor of Linux shouldn't be discounted because the students may never see it again. The OS really doesn't matter so long as tools are provided for word processing, performing internet research and exploring information that students may discover. There's a wealth of this in the mainstream Linux distros and I think it'd be a fine alternative.

Except for that whole ongoing-maintenance thing.

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#14

Post by radida »

No it shouldn't, and honestly neither should programming. Sometimes I swear we can get so drunk on our own farts that we think engineering is the only valuable profession in the world, when in reality not everyone needs to be able to code a rails app if all they want to do is check their Facebook. There are many other jobs that are important and valuable to society that do not involve CS - lets just put down the kook-aid.

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#15

Post by lucidguppy »

csmithuk wrote: post #6
simonh wrote: post #4

What a complete load of tosh. Education is about teaching children valuable skills they can apply in their daily lives. How many of them would ever see a PC running Linux again? The cost argument doesn't really stand up either, books cost money and 'do nothing but line the pockets of the publishers' to paraphrase the author. It's not as if computers running Linux cost nothing either. If Linux is going to find a place…

I don't wish to hijack this thread but tying the Raspberry Pi to education is terrible if you ask me. I agreed about the Raspberry Pi being the best device for education right from day one. That was until my father bought my daughter one for her birthday and I ended up being the resident "fix it guru" for it. The thing teaches you merely how to jump through funny shaped hoops to get something working rather than anyt…

Yes the RPI could use a bit of improvement. It needs better X performance and a restart switch. But the RPI is the best small computer out there with the most support. Give it a few iterations and improvements and it could really be useful at home.

My problem is that in 1982 you could really impress your kids with simple programs. Now my child wouldn't be impressed unless you create an 3D princess game. The hurdle to catch a child's imagination is 10x higher.

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#16

Post by rbanffy »

csmithuk wrote: post #6
simonh wrote: post #4

What a complete load of tosh. Education is about teaching children valuable skills they can apply in their daily lives. How many of them would ever see a PC running Linux again? The cost argument doesn't really stand up either, books cost money and 'do nothing but line the pockets of the publishers' to paraphrase the author. It's not as if computers running Linux cost nothing either. If Linux is going to find a place…

I don't wish to hijack this thread but tying the Raspberry Pi to education is terrible if you ask me. I agreed about the Raspberry Pi being the best device for education right from day one. That was until my father bought my daughter one for her birthday and I ended up being the resident "fix it guru" for it. The thing teaches you merely how to jump through funny shaped hoops to get something working rather than anyt…

lucidguppy: you appear to be hellbanned.

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#17

Post by professorTuring »

binocarlos wrote: post #9

Rather than this OS or that OS - I really wished someone at school had taught me: * how DNS works * the process model with stdin,stdout,env vars + cmd args * streams - text or otherwise * protocols like HTTP but what they actually did on the wire Every OS uses the above list and so even for a young child - you can teach by example. Surely using nice fluffy diagrams it would be worth trying this to find out that only…

Teaching those topics at school is crazy. This is just "random stuff" for kids, completely nonsense.

We should teach "how" computers work (very basic principles) and maybe "how" communications work (very basic principles). And definitely we don't need to teach kids about HTTP... Maybe, and only maybe, we could teach them how a programming language can help them with their "math homeworks" and things like that...

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#18

Post by k-mcgrady »

binocarlos wrote: post #9

Rather than this OS or that OS - I really wished someone at school had taught me: * how DNS works * the process model with stdin,stdout,env vars + cmd args * streams - text or otherwise * protocols like HTTP but what they actually did on the wire Every OS uses the above list and so even for a young child - you can teach by example. Surely using nice fluffy diagrams it would be worth trying this to find out that only…

Teaching those in school would be a waste of time. I work full time in the tech industry and don't fully understand all of those topics because they are irrelevant to me. People are never going to need to understand them for daily use.

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#19

Post by fit2rule »

simonh wrote: post #4

What a complete load of tosh. Education is about teaching children valuable skills they can apply in their daily lives. How many of them would ever see a PC running Linux again? The cost argument doesn't really stand up either, books cost money and 'do nothing but line the pockets of the publishers' to paraphrase the author. It's not as if computers running Linux cost nothing either. If Linux is going to find a place…

You're contradicting yourself in the rush to sound like an authority.

Androids is a Linux computer.

Learning linux is vital - because Linux runs everywhere, and almost everything!

Been on a train in Europe? Your life is being protected by Linux. Made an Internet connection in the USA? You're using Linux, somewhere.

Teaching kids to use the Linux OS should be as equally valid an approach as teaching them Windows. The Linux ecosystem is as equally viable as any other - so why should kids miss out on the value of this technology, just because a corporate lackey has managed to make a deal with school administrators?

Inverse-Totalitarianism!

Re: Linux should be a part of School Education

#20

Post by fit2rule »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #18
binocarlos wrote: post #9

Rather than this OS or that OS - I really wished someone at school had taught me: * how DNS works * the process model with stdin,stdout,env vars + cmd args * streams - text or otherwise * protocols like HTTP but what they actually did on the wire Every OS uses the above list and so even for a young child - you can teach by example. Surely using nice fluffy diagrams it would be worth trying this to find out that only…

Teaching those in school would be a waste of time. I work full time in the tech industry and don't fully understand all of those topics because they are irrelevant to me. People are never going to need to understand them for daily use.

Until you've learned something, you'll never know how you might use it productively. I use all of those topics daily because they make me more productive. I'm sorry you haven't learned just how productive you can be by understanding these things - but this is no reason to deny the knowledge to future generations, just because you're ignorant...
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