Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system • Hacker News Board

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#121

Post by sirkneeland » Wed, Feb 05, 2014, 5:49 PM UTC

Spearchucker wrote: post #32

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture is the largest difference between people. We are the animal that can (re)program itself. Nationality correlates to culture greatly. So there is still plenty of difference between peoples of the world. Its silly to ignore this.

Culture is not being ignored. Wars are fought over it. Human rights unfortunately are being ignored, and that's partly a result of nationalism.

If the 20th century showed one thing it's that human rights are every bit as ignored under [non-democratic] socialism as nationalism.

The closest thing we have to a guarantee for human rights is the ability to hold leaders accountable for them, and throw them out on a regular schedule.

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#122

Post by staticfish » Wed, Feb 05, 2014, 5:51 PM UTC

Is it me, or does this situation reek of "damned if you do, and damned if you don't"?

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#123

Post by enscr » Wed, Feb 05, 2014, 5:52 PM UTC

r0h1n wrote: post #85

_nedR wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"99 percent of Indian aspirants to get admissions even to an IIT or IIM, but it is far simpler to get into an Ivy League institution. If you don’t get into an IIM, you try Harvard." It is not all that hard to get into an IIM these days actually. IIT is definitely hard at the Undergraduate level (and harder than any US institution) primarily due to the sheer number of students trying to get in. The coursework is also…

> It is not all that hard to get into an IIM these days actually. Last year 1,73,735 candidates took the CAT admission test through which the IIMs admit 3,335 MBA students. That's a 1:52 ratio. Now you could argue that not everyone who takes the CAT is an IIM applicant. So let's take IIM Ahmedabad's (slightly dated) data for 2006-08 admission [1]. Of the 1,44,027 who applied to the institute, 273 secured an admission…

A caveat : The pool of IIM or IIT aspirants is a very low signal to noise ratio. It's not just that they are hard to get into, it's the number of people who aren't prepared for it but still pony up the entrance fee. I'm sure that's not the case with Ivy leagues.

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#124

Post by Guvante » Wed, Feb 05, 2014, 5:52 PM UTC

r0h1n wrote: post #85

_nedR wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"99 percent of Indian aspirants to get admissions even to an IIT or IIM, but it is far simpler to get into an Ivy League institution. If you don’t get into an IIM, you try Harvard." It is not all that hard to get into an IIM these days actually. IIT is definitely hard at the Undergraduate level (and harder than any US institution) primarily due to the sheer number of students trying to get in. The coursework is also…

> It is not all that hard to get into an IIM these days actually. Last year 1,73,735 candidates took the CAT admission test through which the IIMs admit 3,335 MBA students. That's a 1:52 ratio. Now you could argue that not everyone who takes the CAT is an IIM applicant. So let's take IIM Ahmedabad's (slightly dated) data for 2006-08 admission [1]. Of the 1,44,027 who applied to the institute, 273 secured an admission…

Is scoring well on the CAT test enough to get admitted?

If that is the case then you can't compare the numbers directly, since you have a very non-trivial number of students who are rolling the dice.

In contrast Harvard is very upfront about their requirements, causing most people to avoid applying if they won't qualify.

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#125

Post by Guvante » Wed, Feb 05, 2014, 5:55 PM UTC

Beliavsky wrote: post #75

The article's criticism of IIT and IIM (elite Indian universities) could be made of the elite U.S. schools too: "The short point: our system is designed to keep people out, not get them in. The true value of an IIT or IIM is not the intellectual capital they produce, but their filtering expertise – which keeps all but the superlisters out of these institutions. When the people entering the institution are the best am…

Not to mention when it is that hard to get in it becomes difficult to really test your students.

Thus you end up with graduating from an Ivy League school basically meaning got into an Ivy League school.

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#126

Post by amaks » Wed, Feb 05, 2014, 5:57 PM UTC

>> While Indian newspapers were over the moon about Nadella’s elevation, with some justification, there is another side to the story we need to consider: why is it that India’s tech and other geniuses flower only in the US or Silicon Valley?

The assignment of Nadella to CEO role appears to be a very smart move from Microsoft board for many reasons:

1) He's not involved into scandalous business decisions as Elop 2) He's internal candidate and been in Microsoft for 22 years 3) He's Ballmer's man, and 4) Ballmer and Gates are still on Microsoft board, so no uncomfortable decisions and surprises for MS board from the new CEO. 5) He's Indian, which brings even more diversity to Microsoft LT.

Given all of the above, I doubt any drastic and revolutionary changes will happen at MS.

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#127

Post by e15ctr0n » Wed, Feb 05, 2014, 6:01 PM UTC

dhaneshnm wrote: post #13

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #2

Since it isn't explained in the article: IIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Technology IIM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Management

It is interesting that, Nadella is from Manipal Institute and not a product of "elite" IIT/IIM system. It is rare to see an Indian born techie, doing well abroad, not from the IIT/IIM system.

Sanjay Jha, former CEO of Motorola Mobility and current CEO of GlobalFoundries, is also not from IIT/IIM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanjay_Jha

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#128

Post by jrmenon » Wed, Feb 05, 2014, 6:14 PM UTC

Interesting debate.....when I see the comments here, I am reminded of this most-probably a misunderstood book by Francis Fukuyama:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last...

It is a must-read esp. if you are inclined towards cultural determinism. IMO, he seems to persuasively argue against all that, and provide good counter-points on how people can change over time.

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#129

Post by Joeri » Wed, Feb 05, 2014, 6:15 PM UTC

leobelle wrote: post #29

mhurron wrote: post #3

“We are all human beings, and our nationality is simply an accident of birth.” This is my position on the Olympics and basically all national pride. It has nothing to do with anything, there is nothing to be proud of. No one cares when I think it, it's nice to see others say it.

I get the gist of what you're saying, but the reality of it is that nationality matters a great deal. It's part of our identity whether you realize it or not. As many immigrants know too well national identity isn't as arbitrary as it seems. It isn't just the exclusion you will face in your new home, there's a strong internal compass that will always point home for many people. It's part of who we are, and a great de…

Nationality is not part of an identity, but nationalism is. I mean that there is no single characteristic which applies to all americans, so obviously there is no part of the 'american' identity which derives from being an american national. However, there is an assignment of values that occurs in people's minds of their particular subculture to 'american' identity.

Identity is too complex a phenomenon to boil it down to such simplistic notions as nationality or political party. Nationalism cannot express a 'whole' identity, and therefore always forces people to ascribe to philosophies which left to their own devices they would not have supported. And that is how we get wars. Thz nation-state is the modern version of the regional tribe, and tribal culture is what causes wars. In that sense, there is no instrument more damaging to human rights than the nation state.

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#130

Post by vagarwa » Wed, Feb 05, 2014, 6:18 PM UTC

thinkpad20 wrote: post #60

I see a lot of parallels here with the Japanese system. Similarly, the system seems to encourage conformism and rote learning over disruptive ideas and innovation. Similarly, their top universities have phenomenally competitive admissions, even though they are not ranked particularly high internationally. Similarly, many of their systems are characterized by endless paperwork and bureaucracy. Of course, there are cer…

My view - The biggest difference is the underlying system (law, bureaucracy and even infrastructure)still being used in India is the one built to extract and export resources out as efficiently as possible. That's the legacy of 150 years of colonialism and Indians simply have never been able to do the challenging work (various reasons) of changing these but for a few word changes here and there. This is most stark in nation's civil and police services.