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Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

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Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#151
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The basic problem is that a linear increase in bandwidth for the customer results in an exponential increase in costs for the ISP > N * (N - 1) =~ N^2 (assuming full duplex links, which would be generally correct for the internet) 1) N^2 is not exponential, it's polynomial. 2) Expanding capacity isn't even N^2, it's just linear. If you double each residential customer's bandwidth, you "only" have to double the capa…

> Because just giving everybody a connection which is twice as fast doesn't mean everybody is going to immediately double their usage. My understanding is that peak load is the issue, not total data transferred in a month. If Netflix downloads/buffers video content as fast as it can, and people mostly use Netflix at the same time of day, then giving them more bandwidth is a potentially big problem

Peak load is what you have to design capacity for, but that is hardly unique to Netflix. They seem to have it sorted for FiOS/U-verse/etc, don't they?

The argument they might make is that their services keep the data closer to the users, but that's such a cop out. They could do the same thing for Netflix with transparent proxies if they wanted to (but the result would be to make Netflix more usable instead of less, which is adverse to their interests as competitors). And in any event the uplink to a large peer is a totally inconsequential part of the cost of operating a network. The thing which is expensive is upgrading the last mile to handle a large amount of video traffic, but that cost is the same whether the traffic is Netflix or FiOS TV.

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#152
Throwaway here, so take it for what it's worth but I swear my experiences are true.

I deal with Verizon Wireless (as far as I can tell, the article is about the other Verizon entity) reps often, I've heard this mentioned many times in an almost off-handed, positive, revenue-generating manner.

That they're positioning themselves to charge providers like Netflix for "priority" on their network. Except the way they describe it, it sounds like they will be deprioritizing or otherwise "shitifying", for lack of a better word, the provider's traffic. Netflix was specifically mentioned.

It's never mentioned on internal slides, but there's always some vague term on a slide that brings up this topic.

This is going to happen, people, unless legislation interferes with their plan and even then they may be able to loophole it. Net neutrality is the enemy, as far as Verizon (and possibly the other big telcos) are concerned.

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#153

The net neutrality issue is a tragedy of the commons. Say you have a common green area and everyone shares it. People come and picnic and everything's great until a family of giants moves into town and sits on the entire green. Netflix is like that family of giants. The solution is to build a bigger green, but how is that going to be funded. Customers don't want to pay for it and feel they're already being overcharge…

Your analogy seems off to me. It works as long as you admit that the reason the family of giants is there because everyone else wants them to be there.

Plus, both the customers and Netflix already pay into the system, it's just that the companies in charge of it want more simply because Netflix is a competitor to some of the services they offer.

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#154
post #88

Switch to t-mobile. Screw verizon

AFAIK Netflix doesn't stream directly from AWS, but (while using it for their transcoding and so) uses a CDN. So blocking AWS wouldn't help in changing the quality of netflix, right? It certainly could be related though.

They use a form of deep packet inspection to identify and "manage" traffic on their network. Where it sits doesn't matter.

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#155
post #87
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting I have been watching Netflix more than ever but I havent had any problem. I'm also using Comcast in Atlanta I wonder if its based on region?

It's only tangentially related to region. Comcast bring all of Netflix's traffic onboard in NYC and their East Coast routing is handled in New Jersey. Their eastern seaboard routing is about the only area where they're not having massive internal issues. Both their Denver (Midwest) and Oregon (PNW) iBone routing centers are having serious capacity issues that are manifesting as packetloss, giant latency increases and…

Why does Comcast use so few peering locations? Why do they route packets from their network to a university in the same city across half a dozen states?

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#156
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not being throttled. There is a peering dispute between netflix's CDNs and the ISPs. Netflix's CDN's don't want to pay for delivery to the ISP. Normally CDNs peer with each other for free if the balance in each direction is equal. The problem is that any CDN that delivers netflix is hugely unequal since it's a huge one way stream. The ISPs could just eat the cost, and let it be delivered for free. Or Netflix's C…

Umm wait, isn't such a dispute exactly what we call net-neutrality? Consumers pay ISPs for internet access, and now ISPs also want money from websites that provide a service to the consumers. But filtering those websites until they pay the ISP to be let through is the opposite of net neutrality. If what you're saying is true and ISPs are asking Netflix (or subsidiaries) to pay them to be let through unthrottled, then…

That isn't at all what he said, though.

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#157

Throwaway here, so take it for what it's worth but I swear my experiences are true. I deal with Verizon Wireless (as far as I can tell, the article is about the other Verizon entity) reps often, I've heard this mentioned many times in an almost off-handed, positive, revenue-generating manner. That they're positioning themselves to charge providers like Netflix for "priority" on their network. Except the way they desc…

I see it more as an opportunity for more VPN services. I can imagine the ads proclaiming something along the lines of getting the bandwidth you're already paying for.

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#159
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm wait, isn't such a dispute exactly what we call net-neutrality? Consumers pay ISPs for internet access, and now ISPs also want money from websites that provide a service to the consumers. But filtering those websites until they pay the ISP to be let through is the opposite of net neutrality. If what you're saying is true and ISPs are asking Netflix (or subsidiaries) to pay them to be let through unthrottled, then…

That isn't at all what he said, though.

Then I misunderstood. What did I get wrong?

Edit: Wait I think I understand. I messed up peering and ISPs, right? Because the CDN connects to the internet via peering, and they're charging money (which does make sense to me), not the ISPs.

Re: Verizon Using Recent Net Neutrality Victory to Wage War Against Netflix?

#160
post #135
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google disallowed servers initially as a non-insignificant number of people thought of the service as an easy entry into mass virtual hosting as soon as they got it. That started to affect throughput[1]. As mentioned numerous times elsewhere, their ultimate goal is to embarrass ISPs into providing better service. That seems to be working in Texas ATM. The hobbyists that complained got an exemption in their TOS for no…

> (Verizon and Comcast hijack domain misspellings to redirect to their search pages) What?! Thought only OpenDNS (and similar services) did that bullshit, and in their case I can understand. In the case of an ISP... you're paying them already!

They totally did. I used to be on Comcast and they did it all the time. There's a setting to turn it off, apparently, but I was never able to. I switched to FiOS fairly recently and it was the same. Any time I browse to an invalid URL, it went to the Verizon search capture page that I had to manually opt out.

E.G. http://youtube.ff goes to http://search.dnsassist.verizon.net/assist.php?url=youtube.f...

They explain it in the DNS about page : http://search.dnsassist.verizon.net/skins/verizon/en/about.h...

You have to go into the router to turn it off. http://www.verizon.com/support/residential/internet/fiosinte...

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