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Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

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Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#51
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly agree with this. Nationalist pride is the Kool-Aid peddled by government and society to get you to conform to their respective agendas and keep you from questioning the stupid shit they get up to. And I really don't mean to come off as a pothead going "It's all a giant conspiracy man!"...

You guys take this way too seriously.

Unfortunately, we're always on our nerves. So pre-occupied dealing with petty things, and on top of that add the troubles of a third world nation (poverty, unemployment, corruption, not so great healthcare). It's only when we get out of that environment do we truly realize our potential.

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture is the largest difference between people. We are the animal that can (re)program itself. Nationality correlates to culture greatly. So there is still plenty of difference between peoples of the world. Its silly to ignore this.

No one is suggesting culture should be ignored. It's pride that's the problem. Did you do something to earn your nationality? Culture in itself is an important difference that makes people a lot more interesting to each other. But the examples given are not the same kind of difference: Olympic swimmers aren't expressing their culture. They're all, by rule, doing exactly the same thing. That the one from your nation d…

There are some sports that reflect culture more, e.g. football (soccer). In those scenarios, you could argue that fans are taking pride somewhat due to their attachment to the culture.

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#54
post #8
post #3

“We are all human beings, and our nationality is simply an accident of birth.” This is my position on the Olympics and basically all national pride. It has nothing to do with anything, there is nothing to be proud of. No one cares when I think it, it's nice to see others say it.

I strongly agree with this. Nationalist pride is the Kool-Aid peddled by government and society to get you to conform to their respective agendas and keep you from questioning the stupid shit they get up to. And I really don't mean to come off as a pothead going "It's all a giant conspiracy man!"...

Seconded. Nationalism is just outdated tribalism that requires you to put your societal overlords' agendas above your own. When they call for you to go to war and kill your brothers and sisters from different places, you do it. When they ask you to give them the fruits of your labor so they can fund their war games and send your children to die in trenches while shifting wealth from the poor to the already wealthy, you do it. They feed you intellectual manure and try to appeal to your monkey brain to accept them as your tribal leaders and unconditionally pledge your allegiance to them and their purposes. And if you're big enough a fool, you do it (most people are).

Nationalism needs to go. There is absolutely nothing honorable in it. It just creates an artificial divide between the peoples of this planet. It all stems from a time when tribalism was needed to survive, and as it happens, evolution optimizes for local problems on the evolutionary curve and some of these features never go away.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying we shouldn't cherish our cultural differences. On the contrary, I believe diversity is a wonderful thing and I find it fascinating that nearly every group of people out there has devised their own ways of communication, worship etc. Just don't let that devolve into "we are better than them", as it usually happens.

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#57
post #49
post #3

“We are all human beings, and our nationality is simply an accident of birth.” This is my position on the Olympics and basically all national pride. It has nothing to do with anything, there is nothing to be proud of. No one cares when I think it, it's nice to see others say it.

Race and ethnicity is an accident of birth. Nationality is shared culture, values, beliefs, and institutions. I spent the first five years of my life in Thailand and Bangladesh. My parents spent the first forty of theirs in Bangladesh. My ethnicity is fixed by that. But when we came to the U.S., we happily embraced the culture and values of the country. And having been in a position to compare them, I think it's fool…

It's one thing to recognize your civilizational and societal achievements as good, useful and constructive and therefore love them and cherish them. Nothing wrong with positive self evaluation. Whoever sees a problem with that is an anti-intellectual.

However, for most people national pride is something that manifests as "we are better than them" and allows them to engage in all kinds of atrocities against other people because "they're outsiders/they're not us". It's very easy to justify all kinds of things when you adopt "us vs them" mentality.

Gotta be careful. Since most people can't be counted on to be well behaved and not let their pride devolve into justifications for colonization/genocide/ethnic violence, it's best to keep those feelings down to a minimum.

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#58
post #8
post #3

“We are all human beings, and our nationality is simply an accident of birth.” This is my position on the Olympics and basically all national pride. It has nothing to do with anything, there is nothing to be proud of. No one cares when I think it, it's nice to see others say it.

I strongly agree with this. Nationalist pride is the Kool-Aid peddled by government and society to get you to conform to their respective agendas and keep you from questioning the stupid shit they get up to. And I really don't mean to come off as a pothead going "It's all a giant conspiracy man!"...

Nationalism doesn't make sense when a nation's citizens feel powerless to shape the nation. But if a nation's citizens, through actions and decisions unique to their nation, feel like they are building a better place to live... what's wrong with being proud about it? Just the other side of the coin. I think striking a balance is optimal

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#59
post #3

“We are all human beings, and our nationality is simply an accident of birth.” This is my position on the Olympics and basically all national pride. It has nothing to do with anything, there is nothing to be proud of. No one cares when I think it, it's nice to see others say it.

Ethnicity is an accident of birth. Nationality can be chosen.

Indeed it was chosen by Nobel laureate who made the quote.

Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system

#60
I see a lot of parallels here with the Japanese system. Similarly, the system seems to encourage conformism and rote learning over disruptive ideas and innovation. Similarly, their top universities have phenomenally competitive admissions, even though they are not ranked particularly high internationally. Similarly, many of their systems are characterized by endless paperwork and bureaucracy.

Of course, there are certainly innumerable ways in which the two countries diverge. Japan has been economically far more successful in the last few centuries, and has a very respectable number of Nobel laureates, most of whom have remained in Japan. But I do think a lot of the criticism of India leveled here is applicable there.

(Source: I lived there for a few years and am reasonably culturally/linguistically fluent)

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