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Re: undefined

#71

Post by lmm »

yapcguy wrote: post #37
throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #12

This was classless of pg. (Tangent: I found out that if you submit a story linking into the killed thread, your submission gets auto-killed. This one apparently survived because the text URI was not parsed as such).

Maybe the moderators will ban this post manually? At some point there will a rather innocuous post which will be blocked, and it will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I think it's coming. I think people are sick of the nannying and censorship and ready to move on from HN.

Any number of innocuous posts have already been blocked. You don't notice them because, well, they're blocked.

I think there is a value to transparency and a space for a better alternative to HN with that as its founding principle, but communities don't form overnight, and how many sites have been successful with transparency over moderator actions?

Re: undefined

#72

Post by patmcc »

csbrooks wrote: post #44
austenallred wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those weird instances when I think the poster was right to post, and I think PG was right to kill it. The poster was looking to have a conversation about what he should do, but PG saw the inevitable flame war coming (and even beginning in the post itself). I don't think any of us would pretend that thread would end up as constructive, so PG gave the definitive answer: Talk to them.

>so PG gave the definitive answer: Talk to them. Which the poster has been doing, and it hasn't worked?

I believe the implied advice behind that was "and if need be, have a judge and a bunch of lawyers present when you talk to them".

Re: undefined

#73

Post by byoung2 »

frogpelt wrote: post #46
minimaxir wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A how happy he was with the service post would read more like spam than a call for discussion.

Something like this: Ask HN: Should I be really excited about how awesome drchrono is? They have treated me with dignity and class since I signed up. This is in addition to saving me hours per day and thousands of dollars on each transaction. What do you think, HN?

As we say in the guidelines, http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html HN is a news site, not a forum for people with praise for companies we've funded (even when concealed as Ask HNs). So I'm killing this. If you have praise for Dr Chrono, please contact them directly

Re: undefined

#74

Post by pfraze »

magikarp wrote: post #53
chrisacky wrote: post #2

PG already responded in the post. (He got downvoted heavily so his post is muted): As we say in the guidelines, http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html HN is a news site, not a forum for people with issues with companies we've funded (even when concealed as Ask HNs). So I'm killing this. If you have an issue with Dr Chrono, please contact them directly. If you ask me, there wasn't anything wrong with the question.…

What PG is saying is that HN can be used to criticize anyone except companies backed by YC. That's unacceptable.

Is it really? Can't say I'd do differently. I'd bet the company will be reached by PG about it, despite the thread closing, because it was a near PR hit. If we're interested in a constructive process, then it would have only hurt them to make it a public ordeal.

EDIT: not allowed to reply to jacquesm, so putting it here:

Good points. I just don't think the community is that threatened by PG's moderation in this case. I know it looks bad, but sometimes the Internet can be a bit reactionary, so I can see why he tried to protect his company from a firestorm (like this) when it may not be substantiated.

As for the favoritism, well, it's YC's forum. It's mild enough that it doesn't really worry me.

Re: undefined

#75

Post by [deleted] »

jrs235 wrote: post #61
srean wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was not my reading. To me the post seemed to be well intended: a way to get the message through to the investors so that the problem could be resolved without legal unpleasantness. EDIT: That is still well within request for "honest advice" in my books, or at least I dont see whats dishonest about the advice sought.

"a way to get the message through to the investors so that the problem could be resolved without legal unpleasantness." So, not looking for honest advice but using HN as a side channel. UPDATE: I never said it wasn't well intended. I said it wasn't for honest advice, OP was using HN as a communication forum side channel. UPDATE 2: If he wanted honest advice he'd have been wise to omit the start up name. UPDATE 3: The…

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#76

Post by true_religion »

yapcguy wrote: post #31
chrisacky wrote: post #2

PG already responded in the post. (He got downvoted heavily so his post is muted): As we say in the guidelines, http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html HN is a news site, not a forum for people with issues with companies we've funded (even when concealed as Ask HNs). So I'm killing this. If you have an issue with Dr Chrono, please contact them directly. If you ask me, there wasn't anything wrong with the question.…

I feel PG is wrong to kill the Doctor's valid question. It's obvious that HN is not a news site, but a discussion forum based upon censored news. If this complaint had been about a non-YC funded company, the moderators would have left the story up. Heck, every other story on HN is usually about somebody complaining about a company's product or conduct. Why is YC afraid of open discussion? So what if one company out o…

I'm going to guess the moderators don't vet every story. They just run a search for YC companies.

Re: undefined

#77

Post by toomuchtodo »

xenophanes wrote: post #69
toomuchtodo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome to your opinion. There's a reason this thread is currently the 2nd thread on the HN front page. EDIT: Props to xenophanes for calling me out on my laziness. I've described more in depth the reasons for the attention called to this debacle: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7178857

It being pure distilled drama would be a reason for it to be #2 on front page. You didn't even reply with a different opinion about what reason it's high on the front page. So he has an opinion that he's willing to write out and expose to critical evaluation. You don't. You're thinking & conversing wrong.

Take 2:

"He explained why on that post, but if you're wondering when this page falls off the top of the front page, keep in mind the possibility that it was flagged off by users like me. "

People are honestly interested on how this issue is going to be handled by Drchrono. People are more interested in how pg handles (or in this case, handled) the conflict of interest between supporting a YC company and supporting the ability to have open discourse on what is a public forum.

These are the reasons why this thread is so highly rated, has a high possibility of not being downvoted into oblivion, and why people are taking an active interest in the previous killed thread.

"This thread is pure, distilled drama."

One man's "distilled drama" is another man's intelligent discourse. YMMV.

Re: undefined

#79

Post by selmnoo »

chrisacky wrote: post #2

PG already responded in the post. (He got downvoted heavily so his post is muted): As we say in the guidelines, http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html HN is a news site, not a forum for people with issues with companies we've funded (even when concealed as Ask HNs). So I'm killing this. If you have an issue with Dr Chrono, please contact them directly. If you ask me, there wasn't anything wrong with the question.…

I'm going to suggest something possibly inflammatory, but I promise I say it with only the best intentions. There's something wrong with the fact that such a big forum for hackers/startups is controlled mainly by individuals who also run a startup incubator. There're issues of conflicts of interest here through and through. This thread is perhaps the best example of things going wrong -- hellbanning/rankbanning (ask michaelochurch about that) is another thing, along with too many threads about serious issues worth discussing getting killed.

Maybe we should move to a place where the power hierarchy is not as objectionable. As earlier suggested, maybe a place moderated by trusted HN members (I'm thinking patio11, potatolicious, grellas, etc.) - we can get started here if there's any interest http://www.reddit.com/r/truehn

Re: undefined

#80

Post by dman »

pfraze wrote: post #64
gamblor956 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unfortunate reality of many YC companies is that talking to them doesn't solve the issue until it becomes a PR crisis. At that point, the company usually falls all over itself to handle the customer's needs and loudly proclaims that it really wasn't their fault that a customer's complaints somehow went un-addressed for months despite multiple appeals by the customer to multiple employees and executives. That's so…

I don't think size matters so much as company priorities. Amazon has bent over backwards for me many times. Whether at scale or not, good support takes very specific focus.

For some reason my experience with Amazon customer service has been subpar at best. On the other hand Zappos (which Amazon.com ) has had exemplary service every time I have had to deal with it.
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