Put.io • Hacker News Board

Re: Put.io

#161

Post by ceol » Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 9:26 AM UTC

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #145

TallGuyShort wrote: post #82

It seems as though the primary use case being discussed and implied is torrenting of media that is not legal (however ethical you feel it may be) to torrent in many countries. Please remember that when you do so, you weaken the case the rest of us have against the same laws you're ignoring, against DRM, against intrusions into our privacy, and against unfair ISP practices.

So there are two groups of people on this planet: (a) Those who download stuff illegally instead of paying like 0.01% of their disposable income per year for it whilst making about as much money as those who have created the content. (b) Those who download stuff illegally instead of having no access at all or paying completely unaffordable fantasy prices for it whilst making only a fraction of those who have created…

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking the people who are in group (b) are the ones who have enough money to afford a high-bandwidth internet connection, a modern computer, and the knowledge to know what torrents and the accompanying technology are.

The vast majority of people will be using this to watch movies they don't feel like paying for. There might be a handful who genuinely can't access it, who have no way to legally pay for it outside of handing over a substantial amount of their small wealth, and they paradoxically also have access to an internet connection strong enough and a computer powerful enough that can handle streaming these movies. However, they do not represent the vast, vast, vast majority of users.

Re: Put.io

#162

Post by Sambdala » Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 9:26 AM UTC

gcb0 wrote: post #129

diminoten wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Took me 3 minutes to get put.io working. Name one seedbox provider that can be set up that quickly.

If you can use a ssh client: 1. go to your VPS control panel, span another vm 2. ssh to it 3. aptitude install transmission done. You don't even have to manage that box. not even install security updates if you don't want to.

If the answer to the question "Is there already an easy way to do this desirable action?" starts with:

If you can use a ssh client:

Then someone will probably make a billion dollar company understanding why that's an out of touch response.

Re: Put.io

#163

Post by scrrr » Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 9:28 AM UTC

If you're downloading copyrighted movies, it seems to be a slightly silly idea to supply anyone with a list. And your payment information.

Re: Put.io

#164

Post by rmc » Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 9:37 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #52

lowglow wrote: post #3

From the FAQ ( http://faq.put.io/ ): > Why are downloads from put.io to my computer slow? > Well the biggest factor is your location. Our servers are in Netherlands. - I guess this is why I torrent. :(

I imagine hosting this service in the US would create all sorts of liabilities.

Yeah cause there's no copyright law in the Netherlands

Re: Put.io

#165

Post by rmc » Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 9:38 AM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #33

What we could use is a secure cloud like freenet, which: 1) Converts and transcodes files on the client 2) Encrypts them on the client, has diffs and versioning with git 3) Stores encrypted versions in a distributed manner on many servers 4) Uses bitcoins to pay for all the bandwidth, storage 5) Is an autonomous corporation that can't be shut down blabla Maybe in a few years this will exist.

2) Encrypts them on the client, has diffs and versioning with git

Minor nitpick, git is actually quite bad at handlying large files. So you shouldn't use git, you should use something git-like

Re: Put.io

#166

Post by fridek » Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 9:41 AM UTC

ceol wrote: post #161

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there are two groups of people on this planet: (a) Those who download stuff illegally instead of paying like 0.01% of their disposable income per year for it whilst making about as much money as those who have created the content. (b) Those who download stuff illegally instead of having no access at all or paying completely unaffordable fantasy prices for it whilst making only a fraction of those who have created…

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking the people who are in group (b) are the ones who have enough money to afford a high-bandwidth internet connection, a modern computer, and the knowledge to know what torrents and the accompanying technology are. The vast majority of people will be using this to watch movies they don't feel like paying for. There might be a handful who genuinely can't access it, who have no way…

In my part of the world (Eastern Europe) 25 mbps no-quota costs about $20/mo (~2% avg income) in the urban areas. Outside of cities the price stays the same but usually only (A)DSL is available, with bandwidth ranging from 512kbps to ~15mbps.

Accidentally, an average price of a DVD movie is also around $20. So yes, there are places where fast internet is affordable, yet movies are not. Unless you want to watch only one per month and give up your internet instead.

There is also a matter of TV series, which you have to wait 1-2 years for (poorly dubbed) in TV or on DVD.

Of course we are probably in something like the top 10% of wealthy places to live in. I can only imagine that situation in poorer countries resembles the one we had when internet was just kicking off and hardly anyone had connection. There was (illegal) business model of downloading movies (from Kazaa or weird warez forums), burning them on CDs and selling for the locally acceptable price.

Guess what - unless the price of virtual goods is adjusted to the local standards, and the availability increases, piracy will be there.

Re: Put.io

#167

Post by antr » Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 9:42 AM UTC

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #145

TallGuyShort wrote: post #82

It seems as though the primary use case being discussed and implied is torrenting of media that is not legal (however ethical you feel it may be) to torrent in many countries. Please remember that when you do so, you weaken the case the rest of us have against the same laws you're ignoring, against DRM, against intrusions into our privacy, and against unfair ISP practices.

So there are two groups of people on this planet: (a) Those who download stuff illegally instead of paying like 0.01% of their disposable income per year for it whilst making about as much money as those who have created the content. (b) Those who download stuff illegally instead of having no access at all or paying completely unaffordable fantasy prices for it whilst making only a fraction of those who have created…

THIS (b) is the comment I was hoping to see. It's a minority in the world that have Netflix, Amazon Prime Instant Video, etc. The rest of the world has no "legal" access to content... and by legal access I mean, access to the same relative conditions as the US (which is the source of the main content being pirated): price, timing, quality, etc.

The rest of the world hasn't got flat fee video rentals, on-demand TV services, has to wait 1-2 years to get a season already aired in the tv series home market, hasn't got the option to watch it without voice-overs, etc. This is a digital breach that decision and law-makers keep pushing for, and the result is "piracy". Later this media lobby points the finger at countries for downloading their "content". Ironic given that studios/distributors were never planning in providing that content in the timely manner and format customers wanted it in.

Re: Put.io

#168

Post by delackner » Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 9:43 AM UTC

ceol wrote: post #161

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there are two groups of people on this planet: (a) Those who download stuff illegally instead of paying like 0.01% of their disposable income per year for it whilst making about as much money as those who have created the content. (b) Those who download stuff illegally instead of having no access at all or paying completely unaffordable fantasy prices for it whilst making only a fraction of those who have created…

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking the people who are in group (b) are the ones who have enough money to afford a high-bandwidth internet connection, a modern computer, and the knowledge to know what torrents and the accompanying technology are. The vast majority of people will be using this to watch movies they don't feel like paying for. There might be a handful who genuinely can't access it, who have no way…

How we treat minority groups is important in part because they are so easily ignored. There are real people around the world who yes, have reliable fast internet (something much more common outside the US) and yet are denied legal access to the media they would happily pay for. Now, you can suggest that they should just not consume content that is not available to them, but that is like saying just don't participate in modern society.

Re: Put.io

#169

Post by barrkel » Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 9:49 AM UTC

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #145

TallGuyShort wrote: post #82

It seems as though the primary use case being discussed and implied is torrenting of media that is not legal (however ethical you feel it may be) to torrent in many countries. Please remember that when you do so, you weaken the case the rest of us have against the same laws you're ignoring, against DRM, against intrusions into our privacy, and against unfair ISP practices.

So there are two groups of people on this planet: (a) Those who download stuff illegally instead of paying like 0.01% of their disposable income per year for it whilst making about as much money as those who have created the content. (b) Those who download stuff illegally instead of having no access at all or paying completely unaffordable fantasy prices for it whilst making only a fraction of those who have created…

Media consumption costs are closer to 3-5% of after tax income by my reckoning. Not sure what they are of disposable income, since I haven't calculated exactly what that is for me - I also like to eat well, you could argue much of my food is overpriced or non-essential. It wouldn't be less than 10% as rent is a large fixed cost.

And my media consumption isn't enormous. A few packaged DVD purchases, Netflix account, and the movies - which is very expensive these days.

Re: Put.io

#170

Post by exDM69 » Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 9:52 AM UTC

ceol wrote: post #161

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there are two groups of people on this planet: (a) Those who download stuff illegally instead of paying like 0.01% of their disposable income per year for it whilst making about as much money as those who have created the content. (b) Those who download stuff illegally instead of having no access at all or paying completely unaffordable fantasy prices for it whilst making only a fraction of those who have created…

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking the people who are in group (b) are the ones who have enough money to afford a high-bandwidth internet connection, a modern computer, and the knowledge to know what torrents and the accompanying technology are. The vast majority of people will be using this to watch movies they don't feel like paying for. There might be a handful who genuinely can't access it, who have no way…

> The vast majority of people will be using this to watch movies they don't feel like paying for.

There's also a huge population of people around the world who get access to movies, TV shows and other media only after a significant delay and use this kind of services to get access to that media on the day it is released. Those living in the US may not realize it but there's no amount of money you can pay to get the hit TV shows on the day they are released in Europe and other parts of the world.

There's a pretty penny to be gained out of these would-be customers if the media distribution companies can figure out how to monetize zero day world wide distribution. It is not a technical problem to solve. Every day that this problem goes unsolved, the content industry loses money.

A little anecdotal evidence: out of the two american tv shows I watch, the other one can not be viewed from my home country at all, the other one will be available with a delay 6-12 months and a horrible dubbed soundtrack. Would I pay a reasonable price to get them on the day they are released instead of the clumsy torrent service I am using at the moment? Yes I would.