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Dogecoin decides to allow annual inflation of 5 billion coins each year, forever

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Re: Dogecoin decides to allow annual inflation of 5 billion coins each year, forever

#181

Post by petrovil »

afterburner wrote: post #169
natrius wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No, it doesn't make any sense, because you'd have to pay 3x as much to replace that Bitcoin." No I wouldn't. I walk up to the merchant. "Oh, you'll accept my $20 payment in Bitcoin? Ok, I'll pay with that." As I walk away, I tap four times on my phone to convert $20 worth of USD to Bitcoin. My loss is the 1% charge to convert, plus the bid-ask spread, not the 200% gain from tomorrow. I still get that. I consider 1%…

Well then effectively what you are doing is spending dollars, and paying 1% to bitcoin exchanges.

assuming there are lots of bitcoin retail options (only one in my town and that is me), there are definitely scenarios where using bitcoin is preferable to dollars even if btc is to rise rapidly. some are futuristic: 1. merchant discount (from, say, no chargebacks) 2. merchant slight discount where the cost of not using credit payment processor savings is passed onto consumer 3. ease of use (I would like to touch my smartphone screen to pay for something) 4. more bitcoin exchanges make procurement freeish and immediate (possibly through an app) 5. quasi anonymity (buying something no one else has to know about). 6. ?

Re: Dogecoin decides to allow annual inflation of 5 billion coins each year, forever

#182

Post by petrovil »

saalweachter wrote: post #106
ye wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, but you conveniently omitted what happens after. 10, 20, 50 years. The truly important difference is that Bitcoin has an absolute upper limit, but Doge doesn't anymore. It matters. Scarcity is an important factor for holding value. Bitcoin will eventually become deflationary, and sooner than you think due to loss of bitcoins.

In 50 years, the Dogecoin-supply will be increasing at a rate of 1.4%. In 2011, the gold supply increased at a rate of 1.6%. Do you think gold is too inflationary to be used at a store of value?

frankly, gold is "lost" all the time

Re: Dogecoin decides to allow annual inflation of 5 billion coins each year, forever

#183

Post by grinnbearit »

Eliezer wrote: post #59

The really amusing part is that their trolling represents better economic policy than Bitcoin.

FTFY "... their trolling better represents economic policy than Bitcoin"

A money is a refrigerator for productivity, not an abstraction over goods and services.

Re: Dogecoin decides to allow annual inflation of 5 billion coins each year, forever

#184

Post by petrovil »

ye wrote: post #33
saalweachter wrote: post #25

Oh god, they really are master trolls. The hilarious thing to note here is that -- over the short term -- this is barely different than Bitcoin's inflation rate. Bitcoin halves its inflation rate every 4 years, but 4 years is a long time in internet time. Here, let's lay them out side by side: INFLATION RATE BY YEAR YEAR BITCOIN DOGECOIN 1 inf% inf% 2 100% 100% 3 50% 50% 4 33.3% 33.3% 5 12.5% 25% 6 11.1% 20% 7 10% 16…

Oh, but you conveniently omitted what happens after. 10, 20, 50 years. The truly important difference is that Bitcoin has an absolute upper limit, but Doge doesn't anymore. It matters. Scarcity is an important factor for holding value. Bitcoin will eventually become deflationary, and sooner than you think due to loss of bitcoins.

I agree. people will prize a capped currency more than an infinite one even if the infinite currency "inflates" less over the next few years than the capped currency. at this point, it seems the only thing doge has over a traditional fiat currency is a cool and cute theme that is sure to be fleeting. the novelty of doge will get stale. I mean really, does anybody really think doge talk or the coin will be cool a couple of years from now? or that it will be serious? in the interim, the masses could send doge much higher only to have grade school "traders" get burned out of lunch money profits or grandmas lose bingo money. a good deal of the doge appeal is its inviting "my first coin" theme. litecoin and other "deflationary" crypto have the incentive to hold because the coin is ultimately capped and the usage and number of holders vastly outpaces the short term rise in coins. doge coin investor dynamics, however, are dependent on an ever expanding pie of unsophisticated crypto neophytes and an up sloping chart. Doge's demographic seems like a race to the bottom from my experience.

Re: Dogecoin decides to allow annual inflation of 5 billion coins each year, forever

#185

Post by bogs_carut »

oafitupa wrote: post #157
girvo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares! That's the point ;) Also, "to the moon" is a dogecoin reddit joke, it doesn't mean anything in particular

A dogecoin joke? Are you serious? Bitcoiners have been screaming to the moon for years. But now it's doge's joke? Is there anything else you want to copy without improvement?

Yeah, the thing is that plenty of bitcoiners were screaming "to the moon" without any sense of irony.

In the dogecoin community it's a statement that carries an element of self-parody.

Re: Dogecoin decides to allow annual inflation of 5 billion coins each year, forever

#186

Post by acchow »

aninhumer wrote: post #148
marvin wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin/Dogecoin is basically a public ledger. Couldn't the system be set up so that this system of rules did destroy coins during a recession by reducing everybody's balance? It could probably be gamed very easily by speculators going in and out of the cryptocurrency, but there shouldn't be a technical reason why it can't be done. This is in sharp contrast to traditional currencies: You can't send in the police to c…

If you reduce everyone's balance at once, it doesn't really have any effect on the money supply, all you're really doing is changing the numbers people use.

An isomorphism.

Re: Dogecoin decides to allow annual inflation of 5 billion coins each year, forever

#187

Post by bogs_carut »

oafitupa wrote: post #162
Nursie wrote: post #74

This is actually starting to sound like a far better currency than bitcoin could ever be. You know, a liquid medium of exchange rather than a deflationary libertarian wet dream. All the best ideas are jokes.

What do you mean "liquid"? I hear this a lot from Americans, who don't understand the concept of decimals and units based on powers of ten.

I'm fairly certain that the kind of Americans who frequent HN can perform trivial arithmetic.

Re: Dogecoin decides to allow annual inflation of 5 billion coins each year, forever

#188

Post by iwwr »

mpyne wrote: post #154
iwwr wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inflation rate over time will actually tend to zero, since each additional 5bn coins represents a smaller proportion of the total amount. A constant quantity over time translates into a decreasing rate of inflation.

That's not accounting for lost coins (either because the wallet is lost or the owner is prevented from spending them). The idea in the github thread seems to be that the 5% inflation should approximately cancel out the unknown loss of coins that would be going on.

That's also insufficient over the long term since coins are lost as a proportion of the total per unit of time.

Re: Dogecoin decides to allow annual inflation of 5 billion coins each year, forever

#189

Post by kolev »

drewblaisdell wrote: post #70
girvo wrote: post #24

Man, I really feel like those who are upset about this truly wanted it to be "their Bitcoin" -- the cryptocurrency they got on the ground floor for and were hoping would turn out like BTC has. And to be fair, it sorted started looking that way. But now, as it's been decided to be "inflationary" (like the USD currently), they feel that the party is over. And I get it. That sucks. Personally, I think it's a great thing…

> discourage hoarding Is there compelling evidence that inflation discourages hoarding? I don't think anyone would agree that USD-centric societies discourage hoarding, unless you think something like investing in mutual funds doesn't fit the term.

Obviously not - Apple is hoarding USD like crazy.

Re: Dogecoin decides to allow annual inflation of 5 billion coins each year, forever

#190

Post by kolev »

Nursie wrote: post #74

This is actually starting to sound like a far better currency than bitcoin could ever be. You know, a liquid medium of exchange rather than a deflationary libertarian wet dream. All the best ideas are jokes.

Hoarding and speculation is killing Bitcoin. I initially discounted Dogecoin, but it seems that smart people are behind it and the whole thing radiates a lot more positive energy than the greed radiating from Bitcoin.
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