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iOS holding my phone number hostage = the worst bug I’ve ever experienced

blog.benjaminste.in

81–90 of 237 posts

Re: iOS holding my phone number hostage = the worst bug I’ve ever experienced

#81
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason iMessage works well is because it's integrated tightly into the OS. So for an open-source alternative to be competitive, it would have to run on... an open mobile OS, which would in turn require open hardware.

> it would have to run on... an open mobile OS, which would in turn require open hardware. I'm not 100% clear on this: why can't there be an open mobile OS that runs on (bootrom-exploited) iOS devices?

I should've added *for best/cleanest experience.

Sure, you can use proprietary hardware (iPhone) and try to make it run different software, but your luck getting around their protection systems may vary (and it may or may not be illegal, depending on how much you care).

Re: iOS holding my phone number hostage = the worst bug I’ve ever experienced

#82
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about invisible implementation details. My iMessage/FaceTime are set to use an email as the only ID. No one else knows or uses my data-only phone number. Just like they don't know or use my IMEI number.

No, I'm not - it will default to using that as the outbound ID even on a data-only plan, because iOS doesn't know it's a data-only plan. The fact that you must go and manually change it to your email address for outbound iMessages is the part that's invisible.

My iOS knows because it runs on an data-only device (iPad mini with cellular).

Re: iOS holding my phone number hostage = the worst bug I’ve ever experienced

#83
post #43

Preventative step: set your outbound iMessage "caller id" to your email address instead of your phone number. Do this now, before you're bitten by the bug. (Apple's degraded QA as of late on iOS means you'll also have to change it back on ALL your devices on the account any time you add or remove any devices or numbers to iMessage or FaceTime on that Apple ID, too.) This way, all your contacts are iMessaging with you…

That would mean that others will see incoming iMessages from your email address rather than phone number from that point forward, and anyone who doesn't have your email address in their address book will not know who it's from.

I often exchange iMessages with people whose contact entry for me likely consists of phone number & name, and if I'm lucky, a photo.

[Edit] Just realized it also means that people who have both your iMessage-enabled email address and phone number in your contact info will be prompted on whether to send the iMessage to your phone number or email when composing a group message, and many will likely continue to select phone. Apple just needs to add the ability to disassociate your phone number with iMessage, and have clients check that status and update their local configuration when composing or sending iMessages. [/Edit]

Re: iOS holding my phone number hostage = the worst bug I’ve ever experienced

#84
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh? Have you tried solutions like Whatsapp, GroupMe, or Viber? They all work absolutely fine on both big mobile OSes, regardless of hardware. I don't see the need for absolutely open hardware for an alternative messaging system. Sure, they aren't FLOSS solutions, but they are much less closed than iMessage and are cross-platform.

WhatsApp does not work on tablets. Its stupid auth system requires a device with a phone number.

Fine, but Viber does, right? There are open source, secure messaging systems on the way too. My point was that you do not need open hardware to have a relatively open messaging system. Just look at IRC as an example. It might be somewhat dead now, but it certainly runs on everything now.

Re: iOS holding my phone number hostage = the worst bug I’ve ever experienced

#85
post #21

This article claims resetting your apple ID password will disassociate the imessage phone number: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5538

Yup. Tried resetting everything possible. So did Apple support. And they escalated to engineers who also said they have no more records of my number server-side. But there's no way to clear the client side caches.

That sucks, if it is the case. It only takes a second or two for a newly added number to switch from green to blue (I'm sure it's some kind of HTTP number lookup request to an *.apple.com web service), so why couldn't they re-request that every time - or at least keep the caches down to like 15-30 minutes...

Re: iOS holding my phone number hostage = the worst bug I’ve ever experienced

#86
post #43

Preventative step: set your outbound iMessage "caller id" to your email address instead of your phone number. Do this now, before you're bitten by the bug. (Apple's degraded QA as of late on iOS means you'll also have to change it back on ALL your devices on the account any time you add or remove any devices or numbers to iMessage or FaceTime on that Apple ID, too.) This way, all your contacts are iMessaging with you…

That would mean that others will see incoming iMessages from your email address rather than phone number from that point forward, and anyone who doesn't have your email address in their address book will not know who it's from. I often exchange iMessages with people whose contact entry for me likely consists of phone number & name, and if I'm lucky, a photo. [Edit] Just realized it also means that people who have bot…

This is true. Though getting an iMessage from john.doe@gmail.com who isn't in your contacts isn't as uninformative as getting an iMessage from +1-234-567-8900.

Re: iOS holding my phone number hostage = the worst bug I’ve ever experienced

#87
post #45
post #5

I know it's annoying but the best solution here just seems to change your number. Don't lose your mind over this one. edit : seems like people don't understand my post. If you have a voice, the good thing to do is to make a blog post and submit it to websites like HN. The guy did it, now what can he do if he needs a quick fix? If he's in rush? Change number. It's really not that terrible and I do it every year withou…

I've had the same number for 16 years. Ported it between four different networks. (I still get recreuiters calling who have clearly only read a CV of mine from 10 years ago.)

It's never a good idea to rely on one number, or one email address, etc... The day you lose this you lose all your connections.

Re: iOS holding my phone number hostage = the worst bug I’ve ever experienced

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would mean that others will see incoming iMessages from your email address rather than phone number from that point forward, and anyone who doesn't have your email address in their address book will not know who it's from. I often exchange iMessages with people whose contact entry for me likely consists of phone number & name, and if I'm lucky, a photo. [Edit] Just realized it also means that people who have bot…

This is true. Though getting an iMessage from john.doe@gmail.com who isn't in your contacts isn't as uninformative as getting an iMessage from +1-234-567-8900.

If you're iMessaging them, they either know that 1-234-567-8900 is John Doe, or chances are good that the content of the message is "Hey, this is John Doe, got a new number."

Re: iOS holding my phone number hostage = the worst bug I’ve ever experienced

#90
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe stuff like this happening is a good thing as it drills home the point Ugh, thinking like this just may well be the biggest problem in our industry. Stop being user-hostile.

I don't know that RyanZAG is so much being user-hostile as reminding us that there are facts of non-free systems that are going translate to user-hostile for at least some subset of users. There's incentives for people who make closed systems to make the most common edges of them comfortable. There's also incentives for them to ignore other sharp edges or to even actively make other edges nearly untraversable.

I came here to say exactly this. Source: I work in the guts of some of the biggest telecom networks on the planet.

Federation is a problem because none of the standards interop. The closest thing we had was XMPP which became mega-bloatware as time went by and is now just not something anyone wants to implement (and it's becoming less of an issue as most of the players move away from open-ness).

While the technical among us understand the ramifications of these decisions, the silent majority do not. I believe it was Elad Gil who said that services that eschew privacy have historically dominated their more private opponents. Users say they care about privacy but their explicit value systems (what they say versus what they do) says otherwise. The majority of consumers are happy to take iMessage and use it to the extreme and will attribute silent failures to the operators in most cases (which is not necessarily wrong).

True federated identity is the death of the phone network and there are just too many billions of dollars tied up in the world for this to come to pass. A phone number is a ridiculously arbitrary identifier for a person, and yet it works and has worked for quite some time. Logically addressed networks are finally starting to break, and that's a good thing, but the catalyst that will move us away from these systems is one that subsumes existing infrastructure while adding new features. You cannot rip and replace our communications networks (or any infrastructure for that matter) and so the only logical solution is to subsume. It's not easy, but that's how this gets fixed.

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