Why Is Obama's Top Antitrust Cop Gunning for Google? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Is Obama's Top Antitrust Cop Gunning for Google?

#11

Post by capsid » Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 1:52 PM UTC

jswinghammer wrote: post #5

The notion of antitrust law is fundamentally flawed to begin with. What constitutes a monopoly? Is it having a large share of the marketplace? The government grants monopolies in the form of patents so how is that different than a company serving its customers well and thus reaping the rewards of that service? And what's wrong with that? Has anyone been forced to use Google? You have options of course and you always…

>What constitutes a monopoly?

IANAL, but I get the impression that antitrust suits are supposed to stop businesses from being anti-competitive, not from out-competing their opponents.

If the issue at the heart of this case is that PageRank may be unfairly directing traffic to Google services rather than competing services, couldn't the investigators just sign an NDA and examine PageRank?

[edit: formatting]

Re: Why Is Obama's Top Antitrust Cop Gunning for Google?

#12

Post by arghnoname » Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 2:02 PM UTC

To the extent that the administration is looking at Google, it's because they are on the same page as a lot of people running around on the Internet. Microsoft is old news, a defanged lion that doesn't know it's dead yet. Google is the new awesome. Ideologically , they think monopolies are more of a problem than the previous administration, so their faith in Google's dominance that is essentially unassailable has a downside there.

Microsoft's issues with Yahoo, and Yahoo coming out looking inept, confused, and powerless, helped cement Google's position as the only provider on the block. Bing at least provides Google with a counter-argument. We'll see if it ever becomes plausible.

Re: Why Is Obama's Top Antitrust Cop Gunning for Google?

#13

Post by arghnoname » Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 2:11 PM UTC

jdminhbg wrote: post #8

TrevorJ wrote: post #6

The biggest issue I see here is that we are in the middle of a mess caused by lack of monopoly enforcement in the banking and finance sector by previous administrations, and the Justice Dept. makes no signs of fixing that problem or even admitting it exists. In fact, financial institutions are even more consolidated coming out of this crisis.

Monopoly enforcement? Really? Which bank has a monopoly on which industry?

I think it's the "too big to fail is too big to exist" theory he's talking about. If a financial company is backed by taxpayer dollars and everyone knows they won't be allowed to fail, as is certainly the case now for the consolidated powers, they can play Russian roulette but with the pistol against our temples.

I'm not sure what percentages of control constitute a monopoly, but if you look at the definition of a trust, I'd say it wouldn't be outlandish to suggest that anti-trust enforcement wouldn't be out of hand. Even if you were so libertarian to be opposed to such things, rescue with breakup as opposed to rescue by free money and consolidation surely would have been preferable.

The perhaps larger issue with the massively consolidated power in finance is regulatory capture.

Re: Why Is Obama's Top Antitrust Cop Gunning for Google?

#14

Post by dantheman » Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 2:39 PM UTC

capsid wrote: post #11

jswinghammer wrote: post #5

The notion of antitrust law is fundamentally flawed to begin with. What constitutes a monopoly? Is it having a large share of the marketplace? The government grants monopolies in the form of patents so how is that different than a company serving its customers well and thus reaping the rewards of that service? And what's wrong with that? Has anyone been forced to use Google? You have options of course and you always…

>What constitutes a monopoly? IANAL, but I get the impression that antitrust suits are supposed to stop businesses from being anti-competitive, not from out-competing their opponents. If the issue at the heart of this case is that PageRank may be unfairly directing traffic to Google services rather than competing services, couldn't the investigators just sign an NDA and examine PageRank? [edit: formatting]

Antitrust law is fundamentally flawed and was created to fix government granted privilege in the train system. Antitrust law is ill defined and basically puts anyone who is successful at the mercy of washington. An activity can be legal at 50%, 75%, 80% market share and then boom at 81%, or any percentage, they deem you a monopoly and that activity which was formally legal is now illegal. It is unjust and and makes a mockery of the judicial system.

Re: Why Is Obama's Top Antitrust Cop Gunning for Google?

#15

Post by zacharypinter » Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 4:47 PM UTC

lucifer wrote: post #9

tome wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Microsoft Word sent information about the documents you were writing directly to Microsoft, or Outlook informed them of whom you were meeting when, there would be a huge outcry. Google has all this information about people who use Docs and Calendar. It also has access to all the e-mails you've sent and received if you use GMail, and where you're travelling from and to if you use Maps. With search, it's knows which…

Ad sense lets them know which page you just viewed. iPhone voice interface for maps gives them your voice biometrics. Search history must be a treasure trove for a psychological analysis and profile. Lets hope Google is not an NSA operation.

Let's not forget their support of http://www.23andme.com/, giving them access to your DNA :)

Re: Why Is Obama's Top Antitrust Cop Gunning for Google?

#16

Post by TrevorJ » Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 6:40 PM UTC

arghnoname wrote: post #13

jdminhbg wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopoly enforcement? Really? Which bank has a monopoly on which industry?

I think it's the "too big to fail is too big to exist" theory he's talking about. If a financial company is backed by taxpayer dollars and everyone knows they won't be allowed to fail, as is certainly the case now for the consolidated powers, they can play Russian roulette but with the pistol against our temples. I'm not sure what percentages of control constitute a monopoly, but if you look at the definition of a tr…

That would be what I am referring to, yes. Companies failing has, and should remain an important part of the business economy. When a company controls too many interests to be allowed to fail then this is evidence that the enforcement of laws that are already on our books has become lax.

Re: Why Is Obama's Top Antitrust Cop Gunning for Google?

#17

Post by Ardit20 » Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 7:10 PM UTC

I would like Bing to be a serious competitor to google, it would only be good for us the user, they would be competing on the share they get from publishers advertisement, they would compete on providing better results and it would keep goggle focused on what it does best.