About Ukraine • Hacker News Board

Re: About Ukraine

#21

Post by Jtsummers » Fri, Jan 31, 2014, 3:06 PM UTC

nmc wrote: post #2

Are Americans so ignorant to justify the publication of such an article? (OK, I must admit, I had never heard of Mykola Lysenko before.) * * * EDIT: it seems this post is getting misunderstood, because I tried (and apparently failed) to shorten the following interrogation. 1. The Washington Post is an American newspaper. 2. The article explains a situation by giving a basic history lesson, and does not contain any ne…

> So the target audience is: Americans who do not know anything about Ukraine. My initial assumption would be that this is a small group. However, the average weekday circulation of The Washington Post is above 400,000.

Keep in mind, there are presently (per Wikipedia) some 206 sovereign states. Excluding the numerous other states that have come and gone throughout history. I would expect, for any given country, most Americans to be ignorant of its history outside of those we have closer historical or geographical ties to (I'd expect more Americans to know the history of England, for instance, than of Bolivia; or Canada versus Nigeria).

Re: About Ukraine

#22

Post by nmc » Fri, Jan 31, 2014, 3:10 PM UTC

acqq wrote: post #17

nmc wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I mostly refer to that first question. I did not get stuck there. I believe you misunderstood my post. I do not claim Americans are ignorant — I was asking a question anyway, so not claiming anything. I believe that, by publishing such a basic article, The Washington Post is claiming Americans are ignorant. I am trying to understand that particular phenomenon: why would a respectable newspaper, made for educated…

Like you admitted yourself, you also didn't know everything from the article. So your added claim: "2. The article explains a situation by giving a basic history lesson, and does not contain any new or exclusive information." Doesn't hold in my opinion. The article is more than "basic" for anybody not following Ukraine permanently. Still can I agree with you if you consider the article tone a bit insulting to the rea…

To be fair, I wrote "new or exclusive", not "unknown to me".

The "strange etiquette" you mention is exactly what I was referring to. Except that, to me, it did not feel like a joke, so I wanted to be sure — I am probably not enough used to some aspects of American culture.

Re: About Ukraine

#23

Post by kushti » Fri, Jan 31, 2014, 3:12 PM UTC

Why so much Ukraine on HN? Protests are happening almost everyday in some european country. No Thailand protests covered here. Why the hysteria about Ukraine here?

Re: About Ukraine

#24

Post by untog » Fri, Jan 31, 2014, 3:15 PM UTC

nmc wrote: post #2

Are Americans so ignorant to justify the publication of such an article? (OK, I must admit, I had never heard of Mykola Lysenko before.) * * * EDIT: it seems this post is getting misunderstood, because I tried (and apparently failed) to shorten the following interrogation. 1. The Washington Post is an American newspaper. 2. The article explains a situation by giving a basic history lesson, and does not contain any ne…

So the target audience is: Americans who do not know anything about Ukraine. My initial assumption would be that this is a small group.

Your initial assumption is incorrect.

In any case, one of the great things about online news vs. newspapers is that an article like this doesn't steal page space from another. You can write this and a much deeper dive and release them both.

Re: About Ukraine

#25

Post by adaml_623 » Fri, Jan 31, 2014, 3:16 PM UTC

aaron351 wrote: post #11

>8. Why haven't the U.S. or Europe fixed this? Seriously?

That's truly a staggering heading to see in an article isn't it. People write scornful things about news services like the Washington Post but to write that in black and white is a sign that it's readership occupy a totally foreign planet to most of the world.

Re: About Ukraine

#26

Post by kasey_junk » Fri, Jan 31, 2014, 3:21 PM UTC

nmc wrote: post #2

Are Americans so ignorant to justify the publication of such an article? (OK, I must admit, I had never heard of Mykola Lysenko before.) * * * EDIT: it seems this post is getting misunderstood, because I tried (and apparently failed) to shorten the following interrogation. 1. The Washington Post is an American newspaper. 2. The article explains a situation by giving a basic history lesson, and does not contain any ne…

To clarify a few things: 1. This was not an article from the Washington Post newspaper. It was from their online blog group. In many news outfits this is a signal that the output can be in a less formal tone/pass a different set of editorial hurdles.

2. A maxim in the American newspaper business has historically been to write to an 8th grade (12 and 13 year old) audience. They have historically felt that the American newspaper buying audience is ignorant.

3. Ukrainian politics does not receive very much coverage from the mainstream news organizations in the United States. For instance, cnn.com only has 1 story on their front page about the Ukraine and it is well below the fold. Foxnews.com has 1 story but it is headlined with highly sensational text.

So in short, yes I suspect a large part of the United States news paper reading public could use a refresher on the Ukraine protests.

Curiously, in your country how much coverage do you receive of the politics of Texas? How much about the Philippines?

Re: About Ukraine

#27

Post by 001sky » Fri, Jan 31, 2014, 3:23 PM UTC

kushti wrote: post #23

Why so much Ukraine on HN? Protests are happening almost everyday in some european country. No Thailand protests covered here. Why the hysteria about Ukraine here?

Ukraine is geo-politically an important region, and has long history of being a part of the chess-board of empire building in Europe. It's not a value judgemnet, it's just more things are in play and the outcomes are more consequential. Thailand is a unique place, and is historically more self-contained, so the politics of Thailand don't have the ripple-effects, in terms of security implications for the region. Thailand, for example, was never conquered by a European power. So it lacks the baggage of post-colonialism, and whilst has its own intriques, they are more unique to the country iMHO.

(You were probably asking a rhetorical question, but these are worth considering for those who are not aware of them.)

Re: About Ukraine

#28

Post by vonmoltke » Fri, Jan 31, 2014, 3:24 PM UTC

kushti wrote: post #23

Why so much Ukraine on HN? Protests are happening almost everyday in some european country. No Thailand protests covered here. Why the hysteria about Ukraine here?

Thailand notwithstanding, are any of these other protests building improvised forts in the streets of a major city or taking over government buildings around the country?

Edit: 001sky has the better, less flippant reason.

Re: About Ukraine

#29

Post by withouted » Fri, Jan 31, 2014, 3:27 PM UTC

11001 wrote: post #20

Here is an ELI5 version of what's going on in Ukraine: Ukraine doesn't have any money, it needs to borrow it. It can ask the west, but the west gives back a list of conditions to be satisfied (human rights, economical, etc) that are incredibly hard for the governmnet to achieve given deeply rooted corruption on all levels. There is another source for the money: Russia (which, despite some westerners' beliefs, is a ve…

sorry, what about policy brutality? kidnappings? tortures? murders? corruption? hiring of thugs? beating of journalists? Dmytro Bulatov was found with a part of his year cut off, cheek slashed and crucified by ukrainian police. The Cossak that was undressed? This isnt just an economic protest, dont reduce to such. Those tendencies finished a long time ago, it has now turned into something completely different.

Re: About Ukraine

#30

Post by dec0dedab0de » Fri, Jan 31, 2014, 3:31 PM UTC

nmc wrote: post #2

Are Americans so ignorant to justify the publication of such an article? (OK, I must admit, I had never heard of Mykola Lysenko before.) * * * EDIT: it seems this post is getting misunderstood, because I tried (and apparently failed) to shorten the following interrogation. 1. The Washington Post is an American newspaper. 2. The article explains a situation by giving a basic history lesson, and does not contain any ne…

The only thing most Americans know about Ukraine is that it was former USSR. I actually tried talking about the protests to about 10 different people this past weekend, and none had even heard about them.