"It's sort of like high school is repeating itself."
welcome to life dude, get over yourself.
Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)
61–70 of 120 posts
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)
#62I've just realised: if the age of the stereotypical american tech worker is 23 or so, that means these people have only been able to drink for a couple of years.
Suddenly these posts make a lot more sense.
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)
#63> Come on, should we also have complimentary joints available? You know marijuana use can be linked to reduced stress and studies suggest it can be useful in treating depression! Please. This doesn't belong in the workplace! And I ask, why not?
This could be a replacement for beer Friday. I agree, why not?
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a world of difference between being excluded because you are of a certain gender, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation and because you don't like a certain beverage. An analogy would be a conference where the evenings entertainment is a competition to see who can piss up a wall the highest. It wouldn't exclude women per se, because they don't have to join in if they don't want to, but you can reasonably…
It seems reasonable to assume that there are far less women interested in, as you say, "pissing up a wall" then there would be women who enjoy drinks and beer; this doesn't seem like a fair analogy.
I also can't think of any adult men who would be interested in a pissing up a wall contest, so it's a particularly pointless analogy.
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)
#65> Come on, should we also have complimentary joints available? You know marijuana use can be linked to reduced stress and studies suggest it can be useful in treating depression! Please. This doesn't belong in the workplace! And I ask, why not?
Snarky strawman time: I'm sure the author thought the average reader would, by dint of puritanism, be repulsed by people smoking weed at a conference.
I suggest using crack or heroin for reefermadnessed analogies like that next time. No, go nuts: Krokodil. Let the reader imagine people using krokodil at a conference.
* * *
It's "unprofessional". Never do anything in your spare time that does not further your career and company.
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)
#66> It's the booze. You can't go anywhere, do anything or talk to anyone in the tech industry these days without a drink in your hand. If you try to fake it with a soda water you may as well give up trying to have insightful conversations after the first hour, because everyone else is wasted. If "everyone else is wasted" then why should they catter to the non-wasted demographic? Should they spoil everyone's fun to make…
If "everyone else is white" then why should they catter to the non-white demographic? Should they spoil everyone's fun to make a minority feel "included"? I understand that the STATED purpose of the event is not "being white". But an unstated and real consideration for people attending is the opportunity of being with one or several white friends. Not everything operates on the "stated" level. A better way would be t…
People can choose to drink or not whereas race is not a choice.
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)
#67I don't think this is a thing specific to tech, I'm not sure about the US but I'm in the UK and at every company I have worked at (including non tech companies) "social activities" has always been synonymous with "drink excessively".
In my experience there is usually a civilised meal, and then excessive drinking afterwards, and nobody is thought badly of for leaving after the meal, regardless if they have children to look after or if they simple don't like drinking.
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)
#68There's a world of difference between being excluded because you are of a certain gender, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation and because you don't like a certain beverage. Hey, I don't like the naive techno-optimist prevalent in many technology events, but that doesn't in any way make me excluded. It just means I might have a different attitude and hold a minority opinion compared to my peers, and that I find…
> If you feel like the event is too immature, don't show up or organize your own events. I don't know how you meant that, but it reads very much like STFU or GTFO to me. > The reason there's so much alcohol is because it acts as a social lubricant. Except that alcohol is more than just a social lubricant; it's a disinhibitor. That in and of itself creates an exclusionary environment for many women, because they can't…
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Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's part of the problem though: socializing is a really big part of a lot of conferences, and if the people you want to meet are all in a bar, getting a drink, then it can be really hard to say "y'know, I'm just going to get me a sparkling water".
Sounds like a personal problem, because no, it's not hard to say that.
For people who grew up not drinking in a culture that emphasizes drinking (often in excess), it can be hard.
Perhaps you should look at this problem from another angle: Maybe it's not that all these people who have personal problems are trying to get people to stop drinking, but instead it's that we should educate and encourage non-drinkers to still attend our events and not drink? Clearly there is a group of people who still think they're being pressured to drink, and some encouragement will make them more comfortable?
Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)
#70> It's the booze. You can't go anywhere, do anything or talk to anyone in the tech industry these days without a drink in your hand. If you try to fake it with a soda water you may as well give up trying to have insightful conversations after the first hour, because everyone else is wasted. If "everyone else is wasted" then why should they catter to the non-wasted demographic? Should they spoil everyone's fun to make…
If "everyone else is white" then why should they catter to the non-white demographic? Should they spoil everyone's fun to make a minority feel "included"? I understand that the STATED purpose of the event is not "being white". But an unstated and real consideration for people attending is the opportunity of being with one or several white friends. Not everything operates on the "stated" level. A better way would be t…
This is a silly analogy. Racism causes serious damage to people's lives. Participating in racial discrimination perpetuates racist attitudes and that is why all forms of racial discrimination that negatively affect minorities are seen as morally wrong in our society. ("Positive" racial discrimination is not seen as bad - see the Focus 100 hackathon.) It is not quite the same to cater strongly for people who drink versus those who don't. I like to drink, so I tend to choose friends who also like to drink. There's nothing wrong with that. It would be very different if I only had white friends because I disliked non-white people.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be more professional to be more inclusive with regards non-drinkers, I just think this analogy trivialises the issue of racial discrimination.