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Drilling surprise opens door to volcano-powered electricity

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Re: Drilling surprise opens door to volcano-powered electricity

#21

The problem with geothermal power is access. It's the reason why Iceland is almost entirely powered by renewables, and why the rest of the world isn't. So if Iceland finds pockets of magma at 5km, it's only really a breakthrough if you can access magma at shallow depths in other regions.

Most of Iceland's power comes from hydro, not geothermal.

Re: Drilling surprise opens door to volcano-powered electricity

#22

The problem with geothermal power is access. It's the reason why Iceland is almost entirely powered by renewables, and why the rest of the world isn't. So if Iceland finds pockets of magma at 5km, it's only really a breakthrough if you can access magma at shallow depths in other regions.

I was intending to show you how New Zealand was shutting down its geothermal programmes, however I think I was wrong and it looks like it's growing. An interesting PDF (but 24mb!) http://www.geothermalnewzealand.com/NZTE_Geothermal_Booklet_... And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_power_in_New_Zealand

Re: Drilling surprise opens door to volcano-powered electricity

#24

The problem with geothermal power is access. It's the reason why Iceland is almost entirely powered by renewables, and why the rest of the world isn't. So if Iceland finds pockets of magma at 5km, it's only really a breakthrough if you can access magma at shallow depths in other regions.

There is, however, access in a number of regions where geothermal can be quite useful.

Iceland doesn't have a large population (332,000), but it's relatively close to Europe (or at least Ireland), and there have been proposals to link it via undersea transmission cables to the European grid.

Other significant resources exist around much of the Pacific Rim, including in Hawaii (limited population and a long way from nowhere), Japan (high population and critical energy resource ocnstraints), the Philippines, New Zealand, and the Pacific coast of the US. One of the largest present geothermal installations is The Geysers in California, with just under 1 GW of installed capacity. The largest geothermal resource within the US would be the Yellowstone supercaldera, and though this is presently protected from development, it represents a vast energy potential, as much as 20% of present US electric generating potential under some estimates. The National Park Status means that research is highly limited, so take with a very strong dose of salt.

Other significant resources exist in Kenya (another rift zone, as is New Zealand). Given Africa's status as a developing region, this is potentially hugely useful.

Geothermal has been significantly developed in many of these areas. I did some digging and apparently the Philippines has developed as much as 50% of its potential, where it provides 16% of the nation's electricity needs. Japan and the US have also done considerable development, as, of course, has Iceland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_power_in_the_Philip...

Geothermal offers a number of very useful characteristics in a renewable / sustainable energy mix, including:

⚫ Base-load potential. Geothermal runs 24/7, is dispatchable (that is, you can throttle it up or down), and balances the nondispatchable nature of wind and solar energy.

⚫ Proven. Geothermal has been in active commercial production for decades. This is proven technology.

⚫ Relatively low local impacts. Plant footprints are small and local environmental disturbance fairly limited. Water needs and the possibility of locally-induced earthquakes (most minor) are possible concerns.

But it is still limited to specific locations for high yields. And if you're drawing sufficient amounts of thermal energy from even high-yield caldera, it can take a considerable period of time (decades) for a geothermal zone to recover. This is particularly a concern with "EGS" (enhanced geothermal systems) in which boreholes are drilled into otherwise only marginal zones. Often a single borehole's useful life is limited to a decade or two.

Re: Drilling surprise opens door to volcano-powered electricity

#25
post #12

About about using the $1 Billion in natural gas they burn off every year in North Dakota for electricity instead of just heating the atmosphere. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2269517/The-picture-... http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/business/energy-environmen...

The challenge with natural gas is capture and transport.

Gas is, well, a gas. It doesn't stay put, and it takes considerable infrastructure to convert it to a more manageable form (compressed or liquified). Both of which are states it doesn't particularly seem inclined to remain in.

There've been enough issues transporting oil from new drilling zones. Transporting gas (by truck, rail, or pipeline) is even more complex.

That's among the reasons oil (and coal) are so useful as fuels sources: they're very convenient. Oil most especially, though even coal can be moved in pipelines (as slurry).

Mind: for both environmental (AGW) and resource limitations (peak oil/gas) reasons we'll have to shift off of them. But the practicality of both coal and oil means that that transition will carry with it immense costs.

Re: Drilling surprise opens door to volcano-powered electricity

#26
post #19

For many years I imagined that space faring future humans would depend on hydrogen gas clouds as the source of their energy. Think: intergalactic highways with gas-stations at such formations. But this brings another resource to mind: In the future, we might view planets, not merely for their mineral resources, but also for the heat that may be trapped within them (AFAIK not all planets have a hot, molten core). Auto…

Stars are fusion plants.

Sufficiently large planets are dual gravitational + fission plants. There's pretty good reason to believe there may be active natural sustained chain reaction fission reactors within the Earth's inner mantel / outer core (for reasons the geologists / geophysicists are better able to explain, apparently not in the core itself). There's also considerable latent heat from formation -- even after 4.5 billion years (rock is a good insulator).

But not all planets have molten interiors (Mars doesn't). And many aren't particularly accessible: Venus has that little atmosphere problem, Mercury's a tad toasty, and gas giants don't give your legs a leg to stand on. Plus gravity.

Visions of spacefaring humans are, I suspect, mostly strongly fantastical:

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the_high...

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/11/the_myth...

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/10/why-not-space/

Re: Drilling surprise opens door to volcano-powered electricity

#27
post #12

About about using the $1 Billion in natural gas they burn off every year in North Dakota for electricity instead of just heating the atmosphere. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2269517/The-picture-... http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/business/energy-environmen...

The challenge with natural gas is capture and transport. Gas is, well, a gas. It doesn't stay put, and it takes considerable infrastructure to convert it to a more manageable form (compressed or liquified). Both of which are states it doesn't particularly seem inclined to remain in. There've been enough issues transporting oil from new drilling zones. Transporting gas (by truck, rail, or pipeline) is even more comple…

Burn it on site for electricity. Imagine it like distributed solar, just with natgas as the power source. Power lines, even low voltage (120-480V), are everywhere.

Worried about cost? Sell carbon credits for the destruction of the greenhouse gas, and use the funds to pay for the generation equipment.

Want someone to manage this huge distributed system of generators? Call SolarCity. They already manage an enormous fleet for distributed solar generation installations.

Re: Drilling surprise opens door to volcano-powered electricity

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge with natural gas is capture and transport. Gas is, well, a gas. It doesn't stay put, and it takes considerable infrastructure to convert it to a more manageable form (compressed or liquified). Both of which are states it doesn't particularly seem inclined to remain in. There've been enough issues transporting oil from new drilling zones. Transporting gas (by truck, rail, or pipeline) is even more comple…

Burn it on site for electricity. Imagine it like distributed solar, just with natgas as the power source. Power lines, even low voltage (120-480V), are everywhere. Worried about cost? Sell carbon credits for the destruction of the greenhouse gas, and use the funds to pay for the generation equipment. Want someone to manage this huge distributed system of generators? Call SolarCity. They already manage an enormous fle…

Low-voltage power lines have high transmission losses (though I'd have to look up just what that is).

The reason for high-voltage lines is that it reduces the total current transmitted, which reduces transmission losses.

Building out T&D infrastructure is expensive and a concern for distributed generation methods (solar, wind).

Re: Drilling surprise opens door to volcano-powered electricity

#30

The problem with geothermal power is access. It's the reason why Iceland is almost entirely powered by renewables, and why the rest of the world isn't. So if Iceland finds pockets of magma at 5km, it's only really a breakthrough if you can access magma at shallow depths in other regions.

There is, however, access in a number of regions where geothermal can be quite useful. Iceland doesn't have a large population (332,000), but it's relatively close to Europe (or at least Ireland), and there have been proposals to link it via undersea transmission cables to the European grid. Other significant resources exist around much of the Pacific Rim, including in Hawaii (limited population and a long way from n…

> Given Africa's status as a developing country

Africa is not a country.

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